Addressing All the PvP QQrs

Right now, LLD is fairly balanced. I hear so much crying about nerfing all sorts of builds: be it bow puncture, tornado shot, Facebreakers, or two handed cyclone. Just because a build beats you doesn't mean it is over powered. HOWEVER if a certain build destroys all other build (CoD), then it is over powered and deserves a nerf.

As we saw from the FFA tournaments, the top 10 builds were Cast on Death, you could tell by their death count being over 200. Go back and look if you don't believe me. The top 10 were CoD builds becasue CoD was OP.

Now lets look at the top 8 from the most recent swiss tournament:

lapiz - iboardtheswordtoo: 1H Melee
Oats_PT - HalfManHalf_BeastMode: 1H Melee
A222 - PrettyBoySwagX: 1H dagger Melee (maybe dual wield?)
Alexlulz - Fyndel_sVVag: 2H Melee
ZenithStar - LiveLikeDragons: Ele Bow (wow 5th place, bows way too OP!!!!!! /sarcasm)
ddub3987 - BurningDubs: Burning arrow
Heelon - RunSucker: Phys bow
JenniferLLD - Jenniffer_LLD: Phys bow

The Top 8 here are not all the same build! If you look at some of the previous swiss/blitz tournaments you will see the top 10 builds be a bit more homogenized.

I've heard so many people say Flicker strike nerf was uncalled for......even though the top 4 post-nerf builds are melee.
I also hear so many people say bows are over powered. From this data we can see that Melee pretty much trumps bow builds.
If I can tell 1 thing from this data is that either not many people play caster (its a more difficult build to play) OR casters are below tier. A lot of the spells do need a buff.

So PLEASE stop making threads about how some build deserves a nerf because it beat you. Keep in mind that people have spent a lot to perfect their build and it would be very annoying to have to remake an entirely new build.

Final note: let GGG do their thing, they know what they are doing.

rock paper scissors. So what if A gets wrecked by B. As long as B doesn't wreck every single other build its fine.

I got shit on hard by fast hitting melee guys in Blitz with my bow trapper.

I mean I still got some wins against melee, but it was depended on how clever my opponent outplayed my traps, or how many bleedpots he had, or simply how fucking aggressive he was and beat my skull in.

Casters were also able to kill me, got wrecked by firestorm and freezepulse permalstun/freeze (no eye of chachacha, or dreamfrags)

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KenshiD wrote:

I got shit on hard by fast hitting melee guys in Blitz with my bow trapper.

I mean I still got some wins against melee, but it was depended on how clever my opponent outplayed my traps, or how many bleedpots he had, or simply how fucking aggressive he was and beat my skull in.

Casters were also able to kill me, got wrecked by firestorm and freezepulse permalstun/freeze (no eye of chayula, or dreamfrags)

the better you learn to kite the harder it will get for other people to get you. You will still be squishy and melee will beat your skull in if you stay on one spot. Its all about trap positioning and the way you use smoke mine/quicksilvers and the new teleport skills.

Interesting post! Here are my 2 cents on the matter.

I also think theres a surprisingly decent balance in poe lld pvp. With bis gear I believe the rock paper scissors goes like this:


2h RT melee > 1h melee
1h melee > bow
bow > caster
bow > 2h RT melee
caster > all melees

Caster here means mostly ele trapper because pure casters simply arent competitive

As an addition i might add competitive casters are by far the most expensive to build. Theres a total of 3 active competitive casters on poe standard atm.

All the other builds arent either competitive which means they lose to almost all of the above mentioned builds OR its so special that theres only 1 player.

GGG should just nerf every build so everyone gets happy and will be able to get longer matches Kappa

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andkamen wrote:

rock paper scissors. So what if A gets wrecked by B. As long as B doesn't wreck every single other build its fine.

How is it ideal to have pvp based on rock paper scissors to the point that the outcome is determined pretty much entirely by simply what build you get paired against rather than what you do? Would you think a sports league is good if winner was all but determined by jersey color where blue would always beat red but lose to green?

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Yazilliclick wrote:

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andkamen wrote:

rock paper scissors. So what if A gets wrecked by B. As long as B doesn't wreck every single other build its fine.

How is it ideal to have pvp based on rock paper scissors to the point that the outcome is determined pretty much entirely by simply what build you get paired against rather than what you do? Would you think a sports league is good if winner was all but determined by jersey color where blue would always beat red but lose to green?

Some builds/skills are just naturally more suited to counter others. To have complete balance between all builds is impractical.

For example...

- Trappers are more suited to counter melee, compared to archer builds.
- 1h melee builds are more suited to counter archers and casters, compared to 2h melee builds.
- 2h melee builds generally beat 1h melee builds.
- Casters with molten shell and tempest shield are more suited to counter melee, compared to archer builds.
- Etc...

Those were are just examples, they're not necessarily accurate in all situations. You can't balance everything exactly.

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Dopamineloveaffair wrote:

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Yazilliclick wrote:

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andkamen wrote:

rock paper scissors. So what if A gets wrecked by B. As long as B doesn't wreck every single other build its fine.

How is it ideal to have pvp based on rock paper scissors to the point that the outcome is determined pretty much entirely by simply what build you get paired against rather than what you do? Would you think a sports league is good if winner was all but determined by jersey color where blue would always beat red but lose to green?

Some builds/skills are just naturally more suited to counter others. To have complete balance between all builds is impractical.

For example...

- Trappers are more suited to counter melee, compared to archer builds.
- 1h melee builds are more suited to counter archers and casters, compared to 2h melee builds.
- 2h melee builds generally beat 1h melee builds.
- Casters with molten shell and tempest shield are more suited to counter melee, compared to archer builds.
- Etc...

Those were are just examples, they're not necessarily accurate in all situations. You can't balance everything exactly.

This is all loosely true, each build can beat each build given the right experience/map/gear. Its not clear cut jersey color beats this team but loses to the other. Overall balance of pvp isn't bad, there's just a few things overlooked or simply ignored. That make certain match ups far too counter productive for the class/build they counter. Excessive Clever Construction times and Molten shell would be the first things that come to mind.