Herald of Ash Question

Is the base duration of the ignite 4 seconds?

If so, does this mean that Herald of Ash ignites for 80-137% of overkill damage over the course of 4 seconds?

yes on both

Correct. To further clarify, if the damage of the overkill damage is 80% of The overkill damage (I.e. we are using a level 1 herald of ash) then the affected enemy takes 20% of the damage every second, for 4 seconds, giving? 20+20+20+20=80% over 4 seconds.

I highly recommend you read on the wiki the articles named (just search in the top right for these):

Burning
Ignite (yes these two are not necessarily always the same.)

Herald of Ash - the weirdest herald, can not be used with curse on hit, even with the explosion, unlike the ice shatter and thunder prices

Damage conversion. Follow along with your char, I recommend some phys to lightning gem, hatred, a fire skill that isn't herald (burning arrow is REALLY good for illustration here since it gives '50% of phys converted to fire" even at level 1 equipped.).

Pyre ring and hatred with burning arrow. So pyre converts 100% cold to fire. Burning arrow 50% phys to fire. Use hatred, for 35% of physical as extra cold. Phys didn't disappear in the calculation.you get several thousand bonus DPs to fire...now take off pyre...watch your damage overall...

Anyway, good way to learn a bit about conversion. If you don't want to be just read the wiki waLl of text, try burning arrow, pyre,etc as above. Throw in phys to lightning on the same linkEd equipment gem slot as the burning arrow gem is in. Predictions, what happens? Are we double dipping? Is it better or worse than (added fire cold lightning)?

Won't give all the answers from mobile keyboard, but fun way to follow the wiki which can bore at times regarding calculations.

Ignite damage is only ever given as a per second thing. If it says it ignites for 80% of overkill damage, then the ignite will be for 80% of the overkill damage per second.

That way you can use things like 'ignite duration' without gimping your ignites. The default duration is for 4 seconds.

I'm seeing both X% of overkill damage over 4 seconds AND X% of overkill damage per second for 4 seconds. Who is right?? D:

I wish I could test this, but I won't be in-game for another few hours.

Sources for per-second:
dudiobugtron, this thread

Sources for per-total-Ignite (i.e. divide by 4 seconds):
Ludvator, this thread
TheInfiniteIce, this thread
Adser, here
KoKid, here

Igniting for a total damage and spreading that out over a duration is not something you can do in the game currently. You can only ignite for a per-second amount.

"

Adser, here

Adser says in that thread that "It is as if you did an imaginary fire attack of X% damage to calculate your ignite." So you should add adser to the per-second list as well. If Adser thinks that normal ignites are calculated as a total and then divided over 4s, then that would be due to a misunderstanding of how ignite works. You can check the ignite page on the wiki to see how ignites work:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Ignite#Mechanics

"

KoKid, here

In this thread KoKid says it would be 20% of X% of the overkill damage per second. This is because ignite normally is for 20% of your hit damage, per second. KoKid agrees with adser that it is as if you did an imaginary fire attack of X% damage.

In KoKid's explanation, the 4s duration is not relevant to the per-second amount, and the total damage is not calculated first then divided over the 4s.

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PS: I think that the reason many people would think it is spread over 4s is because Mark said that's how it works, in the Herald of Ash thread:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/999135/page/10#p8856800

However, if you read the second part of the reply, Mark_GGG is actually saying that Herald of Ash ignites for 25% of X% of the overkill damage per second. It's not divided by 4s naturally, because ignite can't work like that. So GGG coded it to just be 25% of the value.
So I guess that ends the discussion. I don't understand why the percent listed on herald of Ash isn't just a quarter of what it is currently though.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

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Adser, here

Adser says in that thread that "It is as if you did an imaginary fire attack of X% damage to calculate your ignite." So you should add adser to the per-second list as well. If Adser thinks that normal ignites are calculated as a total and then divided over 4s, then that would be due to a misunderstanding of how ignite works. You can check the ignite page on the wiki to see how ignites work:

I think I misunderstood your viewpoint based on how you worded things:

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

the ignite will be for 80% of the overkill damage per second.

The implication here is that, for example, if your overkill damage was 100, you would burn the enemy for 80 damage per second, for 4 seconds: 320 total damage from one Ignite. That sounds rather absurdly overpowered to me.

If you actually meant "if your overkill damage was 100, you would burn the enemy for 80 [Ignite-style] damage per second, which is actually 20 Fire Damage per Second," then that is a really strange way to word it, in my opinion.


I'm suspecting you just wrote it wrong and forgot that you did, because in your latest post, you agree that the Ignite would be 20% of the overkill damage per second, not 80%.

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As for why GGG doesn't just divide the number by four, I'm fairly sure that it's an external/internal-reporting thing, in exactly the same way Leech works. If Leech Duration were simply Damage divided by Leech Rate, it would be like the "Ignites burn faster" mod - you would leech the same amount in less time. However, Leech Duration is always Damage divided by 2% of maximum Life per Second, regardless of how much Increased Leech Rate you have, which allows Leech Rate to actually boost the amount leeched as well, assuming no cap shenanigans.

Similarly, Burning per Second of Ignite is always Damage-of-Hit, times 80% scalar, divided by 4, regardless of how much Increased Ignite Duration you have.

Also, I'm guessing GGG thought imagining x% of overkill damage as a pseudo-Hit would be more intuitive than a per-second value. This thread shows that is not the case! At least, for some people.

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adghar wrote:

I think I misunderstood your viewpoint based on how you worded things:

Nope, you understood it fine. I thought it was for the full overkill amount. I was wrong.

"

I'm suspecting you just wrote it wrong and forgot that you did, because in your latest post, you agree that the Ignite would be 20% of the overkill damage per second, not 80%.

I wan't actually agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just trying to explain their points.

"

As for why GGG doesn't just divide the number by four,
...

Similarly, Burning per Second of Ignite is always Damage-of-Hit, times 80% scalar, divided by 4, regardless of how much Increased Ignite Duration you have.

That's really clever. It also explains why they chose 80% for level 1 HoA, since it would be the same as ignite.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

"

Similarly, Burning per Second of Ignite is always Damage-of-Hit, times 80% scalar, divided by 4, regardless of how much Increased Ignite Duration you have.

That's really clever. It also explains why they chose 80% for level 1 HoA, since it would be the same as ignite.

You know, now that I think about it, though, that makes ordinary Ignites a little bit strange. Based on Herald of Ash's wording, that means ordinary Ignites technically "Ignite for 80% of your Hit Damage." But I'm sure that technicality has little bearing on people who actually build around Ignite, for whom 20% of Hit, per second, is the most relevant figure.