why GGG literally cant make more hideout competitions
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im aware they dont even want to. no money there, and people dont really give a shit. but what would happen if they did wanna make another one?
so first of all, everyone from GGG will tell you that poe isnt pay to win. that was like, the base concept of the game. everyone has an equal chance and everything you can buy is purely cosmetic and all that shit. but if you make a hideout competition, which is SUPPOSED TO BE cosmetic (you know, cute hideouts and such), the mtx you can buy can make your hideout prettier and your chances of winning bigger. so yeah, now what? how are people supposed to compete when someone has some high end mtxs and you have to grind like crazy, only to get some subpar shit thats not even close to the mtx stuff? i dont really care about making hideouts anymore, but just in case someone else still does, i reeeeally wonder what GGG has to say about this! get some GGG employee to come here and tell me a hideout competition isnt P2W. come on. make my day! Last bumped on May 29, 2017, 6:50:28 AM
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Quite frankly, I would disagree with you. While hideouts are all about the looks and what not, it really doesn't matter if you pay for the MTX, as those aren't always essential to a good hideout. I have seen people with a lot of MTX's in their hideouts, and they still look like they were made by a six year old. On the other hand, I have seen a lot of people who basically make dank looking hideouts without a single MTX.
I'm not saying that the MTX's don't add something special to your hideout, they most certainly do, but they alone aren't a mark of a good hideout. At the end of the day, hideouts are about creativity, and it doesn't matter how expensive your tools are, it's about what you do with them. Having 5 MTX's in your hideout won't necessarily make it look great. If you want, hit me up in game and I can give you a few tips on how to revamp your hideout without having to use any MTX's :) |
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ummm! you remind me of that american politician that brought a snowball and said that global warming isnt real
i mean, with that way of thinking you could say that smoking doesnt cause lung cancer, because there are smokers with no cancer, and there are also non-smokers with cancer. and we all know that is false as fuck so if you want a good comparison, either compare same person with and without hideout mtx, ooor have a big, statistically valid sample, for example team up 100 people with hideout mtxs vs 100 people without them and see what happens basically you dont need shoes to run, but they definitely help! if anyone still wants to defend ggg on this, be my guest, but they fucked up with this so hard that you honestly cant win an argument vs me, even though im a fucking retard |
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I can tell you're pretty adamant on the stance that hideouts with MTX have a significant advantage over those that don't. Hideouts and any hideout related contests are not pay to win at all, you can definitely make amazing hideouts without anything from the shop. I've seen many and have created many that don't use MTX that have all looked pretty nice.
There are very few from the shop that even look good, the only ones being the effects such as rain, falling leaves, wide light beam, wisp swarms and so on. Each of which are very cheap, and still aren't required to create a nice ambiance. I suppose any amount is still paying, but they also aren't required to make a good hideout. Most of the others all look like garbage, at least to me and a lot of my friends, though I guess everyone has their own sense of taste. All the thrones are terrible and look ugly alone and have very few matching decorations. Every single decoration in the shop looks terrible by itself. And in a lot of cases it's easy to simple replace a transformer with an extraction device or two, or swap a fireplace for a few low fire pits and a fortification door. There are a ton of effects that are available without purchasing from the shop, such as the both the blowing leaves effects, glowing embers, ghostly fog and fetid smog. Honestly, my all time favorite decorations all come from Leo. I haven't seen a single person with his weapon rack (level 7) or his golden lion statue besides my own, yet nobody makes a fuss over those. There are also the unreleased hideout decorations that were leaked a while back, themed around act 4 and ascendancy, that might potentially come out in 3.0. There are even more effects from this batch of decorations, such as two blood fog variants, water fog and lava glow, plus there might even be others that weren't leaked. There are also a lot of simple good decorations there as well, such as all the mechanical decorations and all of Tora's new foliage. I think if they do release them with 3.0 it's likely they'll host another competition soon after. There have also been many hideout showcases and competitions before, most of the entries don't have any MTX in them and a lot of the winner's don't either. The reasons behind them not hosting any more are more likely due to the fact that there's very little interest (hence why this sub-forum is more dead then the PvP forum is) and less likely because of the fact that it's "pay to win", which it isn't. " The fact that your first line attempts to bring politics into a shitty argument about hideouts makes me think you either aren't serious, don't know what you're talking about, or are just trying to create drama out of nothing. Or a mix of all 3. |
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" i had to reply to this specifically because (if this comment was for me at all) you dont even realize how wrong you are. i have two poe accounts, for the sole purpose of making hideouts. i won hideout of the week once, won some random reward in that other hideout competition, and the hideouts i have for myself are way better than those, so i know what im talking about. ofc there are people better than me at this, but theres not many of them ;) so first of all about paid decors: thrones arent bad at all! the green leafy throne is very good because it has a green glow which you cant get anywhere else, its absolutely perfect for lush themed hideouts, preferably with a lot of shadows. lightning throne is kinda meh, but with that brutus lightning shit (and probably rain), you could for example make an unearthed hideout look really good! which brings me to the next argument: you say that the new hideout decors that leaked, the lava stuffs and such, will make mtxs less popular because of diversity. well nope, it will just increase the demand! the reason is that you will be able to make more decors interact, for example fire throne which is currently shit (will interact with lava), the falling snow is atm shit because no ground snow so you have to use spider webs (but with those mtx ice crystals and probably ground snow that is likely to be added in act5 it will be absolutely awesome, i can make a fucking fortress of solitude if you give me those decors). umm and fireplace cant really be replaced with fire pit and a door because of the way it emits light, pits just disperse it everywhere and its not even remotely the same :( oh and most of the hideout winners dont have mtx because THERE WERE NO MTX DECORS BACK THEN. at least not nearly as much as now. also people were into that shit, master grinding was new and fun! i will never understand why people keep blindly defending ggg actions on this, its so obvious its pay to win :( but sure, keep em up! i got time ;) |
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whew now that's what I call a long forum post.
" I know. I've seen you around quite a bit. I know you have two Path of Exile accounts, it's pretty obvious. What kind of person would make an account named "Hideouts" the same time an expansion releasing hideouts comes out without it being a secondary account just to hoard the name. I'm not making fun of the fact, I'm just saying it's obvious and that I'm aware of it. I know you know something hideouts, though you give yourself a lot more credit than is due. I'll get to the other stuff mentioned in this quote later, I'm just quoting this now for the sake that I'd prefer to keep it in order. " Again, everyone has their own taste. Though out of my friends that give enough of a shit about hideouts none of them think any of the thrones look good both alone and when paired with other decorations. The Verdant throne is the only one I'd ever consider even using, though it's definitely not worth the 150 point price tag, and you can definitely make a good lush hideout without one, I have many times. The others all contrast with literally everything, blue flames and golden swirls look ugly in a hideout and take away a lot of attention that should go towards the background. The Brutus' Cradle is in my eyes one of the worst decorations you can get from the shop, there are so many substitutes from master decorations that look incredibly similar such as Zana's Amplifier Chair, which looks better and costs nothing. I already said that there are some good decorations from the shop, Rain happens to be one of them, however that doesn't change the fact that it's not required to make a hideout look good. " I never said that it will make MTX less popular because of diversity. I said that there are effect decorations soon to come and that's it. If someone still wants rain in their hideout, a wisp swarm or a beam of light, they're going to have to buy it. The fact that new master decorations are coming won't cause people to buy less MTX. If that were the case, and if I believed that it were, you would see people complaining that you can just get better effects for free and that GGG doesn't need to release shop decorations. They won't deter people from buying MTX, I brought it up as a point because I wanted to show that there are effects players can/will be able to utilize in their hideouts without having to pay for them. You misunderstood. " This is a false statement. The Forsaken Masters expansion released on August 20, 2014. The very first MTX hideout decorations were announced via the official forum and the official Path of Exile youtube channel on October 20, 2014, exactly two months after. There were 8 decorations announced on this day, and on December 22, 2014, another 8 were announced. This is a total of 16 decorations within the first 4 months of the expansion that hideouts came with. You spoke of a hideout competition that you won a prize in. You were an honorable mention, granting you 100 points for the in-game shop. This began on September 9, 2015, more than one year after the release of Forsaken Masters. Funnily enough, this was the same competition I referenced, where few of the winners and entrants used MTX decorations. There were more decorations introduced between the 2nd batch and this competition as well, including the Infernal Throne on July 9, 2015, and the Verdant Throne on September 2, 2015. You also claimed to have been featured on Build of the Week, though I couldn't find the episode you supposedly were. I'd be grateful if you could link it, though being featured doesn't really mean your hideout is anything spectacular. Especially when you see they show off hideouts such as Charan's Zoo and a few others that I personally think aren't amazing. Though that's just taste, again. I found that you submitted a hideout, which was the same hideout featured in the contest, though was never featured on a hideout of the week episode. There are also many amazing hideouts featured that, as far as I'm aware, don't use any micro-transactions. Tristram Hideout still remains to be one of my favorites, and was never featured on build of the week, though was featured in a hideout showcase long after it was made. Sinking Out Loud was the first hideout to wow me, or anyone for that matter, and as far as I can tell uses no MTX decorations. GGG has also done a few hideout showcases in the past. In the post linked, only one of the hideouts uses a micro-transaction, that being the Solaris Throne, which also happens to be the least decorated. You say you're better at decorating a hideout than a lot of people. That isn't really impressive though, if you ever trade with anyone you'd see that a very small portion of the player-base puts effort into decorating a hideout with any sort of depth. I would agree that you're better than the people who place all their benches in a circle and put down maybe 5 or so decorations. Congratulations. However, based off of your forum posts of your hideouts, I'd argue that the statement "ofc there are people better than me at this, but theres not many of them ;)" is false, since many of the highlighted hideouts, many of those in showcases and on hideout of the week, and even many of the hideouts nobody bothers to comment on that die in this barren desert of a sub-forum, are better than the hideouts you've submitted. I've seen dozens upon dozens of hideouts that look amazing belonging to people who don't even bother to post them because the forum is so dead that look better. I don't want to claim I'm better than anyone like you, but several of the hideouts I've made and that my friends have made look better, though you could pass it off as personal bias if you wanted to. -------------------------------------------------- Now, to summarize a post that's 10 times longer than it ever needed to be, micro-transactions are not needed to make a hideout look good. They can make a hideout look better, and they can also make a hideout look worse. It's not pay to win, suggesting that it is means that you don't understand what pay to win means. Again, the reason they don't make more showcases is because this sub-forum is more dead than any other piece of content in both the forums and the game. Hideouts are not dead content, but the forum is. The PvP in this game gets more attention by the community, and that's already considered to be a joke and to be dead content. GGG isn't going to host a competition for 5 people to submit decent entries. Quoting this again because it summarizes everything important about hideouts. " Don't tell me I've wasted my time on this. I know that better than anyone. I'm 5 beers in and spending just over half an hour writing an arbitrary thesis on a dead forum is more appealing to me than finishing a computer science assignment due in a week. |
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okay, i wont tell you you wasted time :D but ehmm...yeah!
so first of all! i said i "won hideout of the week once, won some random reward in that other hideout competition". that one you found was the random reward from that other competition so i didnt lie about that at all. although i consider that one to be better than the one i actually got the reward for :( the one that got hideout of the week was the 1st hideout of 2nd season, thats my other acc, actually my first acc, this one was made second. im not very proud of that hideout of the week video because in the video some of very important decors were misplaced by whoever made the video, for example one prison wall+bars, and in the zana praying area that large wall from catarina. very sad i was when i saw that but whatever in order to avoid long posts myself, i will try to phrase what i want as shortly as possible: in the hands of a skilled hideout creator, hideout mtxs help the hideout look better. and no matter even if it was only marginally (which it isnt), it would still make it pay to win |
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Saying that it's pay to win implies that at least a decent portion of the purchasable decorations are significantly better than those that are available at no cost. It also implies that using said decorations will increase the chances of winning one of the competitions that GGG sets forth. For something to be considered pay to win, it must grant either a noticeable advantage over others that do not have access to features you need to pay for; in this case that would be paying for decorations increases the chances of winning a contest.
Again, this is shown not to be the case. Zstark, one of the winners of the linked contest uses no MTX that can be seen in any of the images associated with his entry. Rodarax, another winner of the same contest, also uses no visually apparent MTX in their hideout. Kralj87, the third winner, uses no MTX in their hideout either. MacMeortel, a runner up, has no clearly visual MTX in their hideout. Agaphar, the other runner up, also has no MTX in their hideout. Now, looking at the first two pages, we can see several players using MTX in their hideouts that didn't win, or even get mentioned. Rob2655, literally the first post, uses Pumpkins and 2 Vaal Vessels. The second post by SaunaChum also has MTX in their hideout, they have Pumpkins and a Wisp Swarm. The fourth post by KojiBear uses Rain in their hideout. The ninth post by KorgothBG uses a Cauldron. The tenth post by Eleziel also uses a Cauldron. The eleventh post by Tin_Foil_Hat uses a Wide Light Beam. The thirteenth post by NaarJitsu uses a Fireplace and Rain. The fourteenth post by Kingoko uses a Fireplace and a Sacrificial Shrine. The fifteenth post by Razor792 uses a Fireplace. The sixteenth post by rozol1234 uses Rain. There are many more, I could keep going if you want. That's 10 examples of people using MTX in their hideouts in the first 2 pages of submission, none of which got any attention whatsoever. Several of them had fairly well designed hideouts as well, I'd even say that a few of them are better than Rodarax's entry, one of the winners. The three winners and two runner ups on the other hand use no MTX whatsoever. If MTX were pay to win like you claim it to be, then why is this the case? I agree that it's about how you use your options and not the options them self, but surely out of the 5 winners and runner ups you'd expect at least one of them to use these pay to win decorations., whereas there are so many entries that use MTX and still lose. I don't think I need to go and find more examples to support my viewpoint, but if you insist I will. Your view is based off of the fact that you think purchasable decorations look significantly better than those not available to people not willing to pay for them, an opinion. I see where you're coming from, at least I think I do. You think that because people have access to what, 20 or 30 extra decorations that means that they can make better looking hideouts. While that is true, it has next to no impact on winning a contest or getting featured, as I've shown. Giving an artist 11 colours to work with instead of 10 doesn't mean his work will be better, and there is very little correlation. The artist with the best painting will win every time, regardless of the number of options given to them. More options does not mean that you're more likely to win, and in some cases having too many options may even be a bad thing. |
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" no. just no. for something to be paid to win, means it must grant ANY advantage. not considerable, ANY. for example, usain bolt holds the 100m world record with 9.58 sec. worlds second best according to wikipedia is asafa powell with 9.74s. so bolt has a very minor advantage over powell, which resulted in a 0.16s better time. but he won. so "pay to win" means any, even marginal difference that paying gives you over non-payers. and more decors to choose from (and mostly good ones as well), is an advantage and theres really no disputing that oh and, a vast majority of hideout winners didnt use mtx...so what? back to the cancer example i gave, a vast majority of smokers never develop cancer. that doesnt mean smoking isnt a factor. so if you wanna argue on this, either give those same winners the paid decors to use and then compare their hideouts to the ones they had before, or have a large sample of the users and non-users of paid decors. otherwise you are making a statistical error i remember a friend of mine doing a statistical survey just for himself, where he asked people if they thought that poe was pay to win, and if they ever gave any money to ggg. to no surprise, he found out that people who gave money to ggg had a bigger tendency to not call it pay to win, i guess to defend their actions of throwing money there. thats really basic psychology, even totalbiscuit made a video about it once. and you cant call that guy a random internet troll. what you are doing here is throwing logic away on purpose, to defend your actions as a buyer. that way of thinking is the base reason why for example preorder and free-to-play games have a completely insane fanbase that aggressively defends every action of the company, no matter how much evidence is stacked against them. like you are doing now :( |
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Pay to win means you win by paying, not pay to have an advantage. No ones arguing you get an advantage with more options.
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