Daryl davis vs Joe rogan, must watch?

Thought i would share this interview, it is amazing on many different levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTQ0Wj6yIg

guy knows how to tell a story and lets not beat around the bush, its one hell of a story.

A solid and good working mind.

Peace,

-Boem-

"...lesson taught is ignorance breeds fear, we fear the things we don't understand, if you do not keep that fear in check that fear in turn will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate those things that frighten us, if you don't check that hatred it in turn will escalate and breed destruction, we want to destroy those things that we hate because... (you know) they frighten us..." plus "...the source of all this is ignorance, and ignorance can be cured by education..."

"...the klan is history and you don't destroy history, the good, the bad, the ugly and the shameful is still history..."

That pretty much sums it up nicely (for those bored to watch it), very interesting (and kinda funny) conversation, the musician guy said very wise things in very simple words, he definitely knows how to tell a good story, also I had a good laugh, thanks a bunch!

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Nizhidrhamannit wrote:

"...lesson taught is ignorance breeds fear, we fear the things we don't understand, if you do not keep that fear in check that fear in turn will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate those things that frighten us, if you don't check that hatred it in turn will escalate and breed destruction, we want to destroy those things that we hate because... (you know) they frighten us..." plus "...the source of all this is ignorance, and ignorance can be cured by education..."

I worry such reasoning would be used as an excuse for indoctrination.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Nizhidrhamannit wrote:

"...lesson taught is ignorance breeds fear, we fear the things we don't understand, if you do not keep that fear in check that fear in turn will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate those things that frighten us, if you don't check that hatred it in turn will escalate and breed destruction, we want to destroy those things that we hate because... (you know) they frighten us..." plus "...the source of all this is ignorance, and ignorance can be cured by education..."

I worry such reasoning would be used as an excuse for indoctrination.

I don't see a problem with indoctrination if it comforms with reality.

He's talking about context not content, so im not sure if your fearing the method rather then what is being taught.

Historically a school is a place of indoctrination where the telos is truth.

My worry wouldn't be with the "indoctrination" part but with what telos a place of indoctrination adopts.

If the pursuit of truth is surrendered then touch with reality is gone and as a consequence of that logic deductive reasoning(since it mimics reality).

Peace,

-Boem-

Education is one thing, indoctrination is another. Teachers tend to confuse those two separate things, and yes schools are historically, and by definition institutions of both (education and indoctrination, with exceptions of course), especially the further one looks back in time (moreso during certain eras and under certain regimes).

But education is not something that has a... telos —to use the exact word our host came up with, it literally means the end in greek— education is something that goes on forever, provided one lives that much! And education inherently includes revision to one's former beliefs that no longer apply, or simply seem out of date or place. All it takes is courage to acknowledge mistakes. Courage excludes fear by the way, it's that simple.

As for thruth, well I really think truth is... elusive, to say the least, it's sort of a quest of one's lifetime, a goal that could never be achieved or realized, one can only get glimpses of it, if one gets lucky enough. That doesn't mean it's not a worthy quest. On the contrary it is a noble and honorable endeavor, evasive as it is. Those preaching ex cathedras and in the name of the truth that they seem to possess are the ones that potentially can cause the most harm, usually to many others before themselves. I tend to steer clear of them.



Pax et Bonum / Panem et Circenses

-me----------------The-Name-That-A-Way------------------------->

^I was using "telos" as it is utilized in philosophy, "the end" in this case means "final purpose". The telos of a knife for example would be to cut, not the iron or shape etc but its "end function".

Thats why a lot of old schools have "Veritas" as an inscription above the entrance gate, which is why i made that reference.(truth and justice/truth and liberty and other variations etc)

they literally do have a telos dedicated to "veritas" or at least, historically they had this aim.
Wether we live up to that burden is for our generation to decide i reckon.

As far as truth and idea's go, i tend to hold idea's in my head as 85% conviction and 15% doubt. Enough room to be destroyed if a superior argument is made but plenty of room to form a solid defense to hold on to them.
I think thats a healthy attitude when seeking truth, since you need to be nimble enough to shift paradigms but strong enough to form a defense against unfounded logic.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

I don't see a problem with indoctrination if it comforms with reality.

He's talking about context not content, so im not sure if your fearing the method rather then what is being taught.

Historically a school is a place of indoctrination where the telos is truth.

My worry wouldn't be with the "indoctrination" part but with what telos a place of indoctrination adopts.

If the pursuit of truth is surrendered then touch with reality is gone and as a consequence of that logic deductive reasoning(since it mimics reality).

Peace,

-Boem-

The casue os such situation is that: many thinks that "the truth" is some transcentendal thing, somwhere else, not here, "up there" in "idea world". Meanwhile Truth is what it is. Thats it. Reality is Truth.

So seeking The Truth is building up touch with reality but not with my interpretation/perception of it. So the main thing one can do i work on his/her perceptions so they can be as fit as it possible with what it is - Truth/Reality.

Thats the core reason why the mess is present.

A proper education isn't about being presented with facts as it is being presented with the tools to properly separate facts from the other parts of perception, analogous to separating signal from noise. Any worthwhile education is going to include the presentation of false material "steelmanned" to be at or near its maximum persuasiveness, as an exercise for students to practice the separation of fact from fiction. Indoctrination, in contrast, presents statements as fact in a manner that either ignores arguments that oppose the intended narrative, or strawmans them to provide a false pretense of education.

Indoctrination is never education. At best, indoctrination can be described as proper information without the underlying education, like the answers to math problems without understanding the means used to arrive at those answers; at worst, it is systematic misinformation accompanied by a crippling miseducation.

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Nizhidrhamannit wrote:

education is not something that has a... telos —to use the exact word our host came up with, it literally means the end in greek— education is something that goes on forever, provided one lives that much! And education inherently includes revision to one's former beliefs that no longer apply, or simply seem out of date or place. All it takes is courage to acknowledge mistakes.

Correct. Education is continuously evolving because the opposing skill at persuading others of untruths is continuously evolving. It's a never-ending arms race, wherein those who are complacent are safe only to the extent they are not found.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

A proper education isn't about being presented with facts as it is being presented with the tools to properly separate facts from the other parts of perception, analogous to separating signal from noise. Any worthwhile education is going to include the presentation of false material "steelmanned" to be at or near its maximum persuasiveness, as an exercise for students to practice the separation of fact from fiction. Indoctrination, in contrast, presents statements as fact in a manner that either ignores arguments that oppose the intended narrative, or strawmans them to provide a false pretense of education.

Indoctrination is never education. At best, indoctrination can be described as proper information without the underlying education, like the answers to math problems without understanding the means used to arrive at those answers; at worst, it is systematic misinformation accompanied by a crippling miseducation.

Well put like that, im for the indoctrination of discernment. Which is what i consider the skill or mastery to find truth to be.

Peace,

-Boem-