Current waystone system is kind of awful

You have to vaal every single T15 waystone otherwise you can't run T16s.
You can never run a node that has +2 without using a T16.
You can only run T16s on +2 nodes.
You often have to burn 8 T15s to get one T16.
They waystones often drop in area level instead of increasing after corruption, so they become uselesss.

I just want to run the highest tier maps consistently but this literally requires multiple towers being influenced and deleting many waystones. Way too many layers of RNG, there was nothing like this in POE 1. You need a syzygy of game mechanics aligning correctly to run one T18, it's so boring.

I basically agree.

IMHO corrupting ANY map [waystone] should automatically increase the level of the map by one. Any other effects of corrupting a map should also be possible in addition to the automatic level upgrade.

In addition the player, similar to PoE1, should have more agency in what level of waystones can drop in the map. For example in PoE1 you could easily tell the game to only drop the highest two [T16 and the special T17] maps to drop AND you could sustain T16 maps without too much atlas or other investment.

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Unrelated but important to me: I believe that there should be map bosses ON EVERY SINGLE MAP -- and not the 1/4 [fewer?] number of map bosses we currently see.

Currently while completing my atlas [atlas quests] I don't dare run my "good" maps without a map boss being in the level for fear that I won't be able to sustain my map drops. This results in roughly 3/4 of my time spent clearing maps being effectively wasted and only 1/4 do I feel that I get enough returns to keep moving my atlas quests forward.

Note: I would NOT like to see GGG nerf map drops if bosses are on every node. Currently I'm taking every single atlas node I can that would directly or indirectly allow me to better sustain high level maps. This feels like a TAX [mandatory investment] currently and I'd like the freedom to explore other atlas nodes without being unduly punished.

maybe its just not the right perspective. you always want to un the highest map only, sure, you always want to only drop divines, mirrors, t0 uniques and perfect rares too right?


things are only special if you dont have them all the time.


should the map system have special maps you sometimes get to run? or should there be nothing special and the best possible map is just the 'normal' you always run?

thats a genuine question btw im not saying the question dictates the answer. but my opinion is the system should have special maps you sometimes get to do. whatever 'normal' is, there should be a tier or 2 above normal you sometimes get to do.

I just want my baseline to not degrade. If I'm running T3s, give me enough waystones to keep running T3s. If I've started to run T4s, then drop T4s for me...

My opinion is that the endgame system with the waystones is pretty good. You just need to get used to it. Just run the highest and juiciest map all the time is a Poe 1 thing and thats something i didnt like about it.

The only thing that bothers me is that low level waystones can drop in high tier maps.
There should drop more waystones of the tier you are actually running. Actually when i do T15 or T16 maps i drop many waystones, but i only pick up T13 and higher. Maybe 70% of waystones i dont pick up, because the tier is uninteresting.

Lower Ts than you can run is practically useless...

I don't really mind the whole "Vaal T15 to get T16" - it has been working out 'ok'.

The part that I hate is the "atlas prep" to run the handful of T16s I manage to get.

The bad rolls of corruption I use as part of the prep.

The prep is running a bunch of dull maps to clear to the towers and clear out 'bad' nodes as in nodes that don't have corruption or breach etc already so they can't be influenced by the towers.

Then I can actually use the towers to influence the good nodes to run maps on.

Of 4 hours played last night, a solid 2 was prep work.



I think what would help would be a factorio like system where the map gets 'better' the farther from spawn you progress.

That would reduce the number of crappy nodes that we have to wipe out before affecting the remaining nodes with towers after we have already done moved several screens away from spawn.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

maybe its just not the right perspective. you always want to un the highest map only, sure, you always want to only drop divines, mirrors, t0 uniques and perfect rares too right?


things are only special if you dont have them all the time.


should the map system have special maps you sometimes get to run? or should there be nothing special and the best possible map is just the 'normal' you always run?

thats a genuine question btw im not saying the question dictates the answer. but my opinion is the system should have special maps you sometimes get to do. whatever 'normal' is, there should be a tier or 2 above normal you sometimes get to do.

I knew this comment was coming, people are so predictable. Never have I ever said that I want mirrors dropping in every map, you just made that up for no reason. XP gain is awful at higer levels, even by level 90 it feels bad. I have a character that runs T18's very well, I don't ever want to waste my time in T14 maps that give zero xp and don't drop level 20 skill gems, they are too easy and they are boring. T18s are not too easy and actaully give xp.

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kumogakure#7381 wrote:

I just want my baseline to not degrade. If I'm running T3s, give me enough waystones to keep running T3s. If I've started to run T4s, then drop T4s for me...

Eh, in the current system some investment into the atlas fixes the sustain issues. Bosses pretty much always drop high tier maps so you always run best maps to nuke bosses.

Towers get the lowest tier map and you just run through them to not waste 'good' tiers on them.

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Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

maybe its just not the right perspective. you always want to un the highest map only, sure, you always want to only drop divines, mirrors, t0 uniques and perfect rares too right?


things are only special if you dont have them all the time.


should the map system have special maps you sometimes get to run? or should there be nothing special and the best possible map is just the 'normal' you always run?

thats a genuine question btw im not saying the question dictates the answer. but my opinion is the system should have special maps you sometimes get to do. whatever 'normal' is, there should be a tier or 2 above normal you sometimes get to do.

If you are essentially replying to me then I think we likely fundamentally disagree.

While I don't mind the need to use towers to make sure my maps have special mechanics [breech, ritual, expedition, ...] I do mind the decision that map bosses are, in effect, "special".

Giving the players agency in what mechanics [breech, ritual, expedition, etc.] seems more than reasonable to me. It also seems reasonable that those mechanics would be fairly rare without tower juicing.

Keying basic atlas quest progression to 1/4 of the nodes WITHOUT giving the players agency to also buff the number of map bosses available does seem excessive to me.

The NUMBER ONE factor with me not really enjoying the game is that basic atlas quest progression is too much of a slog. When 3/4 [more??] maps don't have bosses COMBINED with maps in general being more of a slog feels too much. When map sustain is keyed to bosses the combination just feels like too much work for too little squeeze.


EDIT: I have geared my entire atlas, map selection, tower selection, etc. strategy around map sustain and ONLY map sustain even to the point where I only run [at least] 6 mod maps, I try to irradiate [tower juice] boss maps, ... While I am over-sustaining with this strategy I'm not sure if there is anything I can safely remove because I was BARELY sustaining before completely selling out to sustain-only. The amount of work for setup, planning, etc. compared to rewards isn't properly balanced for me.

Needless to say each person will [and SHOULD!] have their own opinion about this but I'd be surprised if I was the only person feeling this way.

YMMV.