Tomorrow's Biggest Question: What type of Game will PoE 2 Be?

I think the biggest question for the game right now is what type of ARPG the directors want to create. Others have pointed this out but right now POE2 feels like two games:

Act 1-2 Normal offer slow, tactical combat where you are responding to enemy attacks and using combinations of skills to engage even with white mobs

Act 3 Normal or Act 1 Cruel the pace of combat starts to speed up to where you are eventually stat checking enemies with your build, clearing screens in an explosion of effects by the endgame

I would love for the devs to clarify what their vision is regarding PoE2 because I, and I'm sure others, want to have an informed expectation for the games future. The devs have made statements before the games release on "game speed" and they went both ways. They put a huge emphasis on the slower, tactical gameplay because that's what PoE2 did differently. But they also addressed concerns of PoE1 players stating that the endgame will be faster than the campaign.

As players are going through endgame we already see tons of screen clearing, one shotting boss content. At the same time mobs are sped up to where players are getting one shot so in a way the only strategy is to clear the screen before you get tapped. I follow a lot of the streamers and while many are giving thoughts more on the systems side of things I noticed that only Llama (an ARPG streamer known mostly for D2 content) had expressed that he would like the endgame to be more like the early campaign pace wise. I could be wrong, please let me know if others have commented on this question as well. I assume this means that most streamers are perfectly happy with the pace of endgame. I also see this question pop up on reddit and on forums and my impression is that players who are engaging with these platforms tend to accept and/or desire a screen clearing, map zooming, boss melting game. There are players that are expressing their preference for the for early campaign gameplay, but their voices seem to be in the minority online.

Is the current pace what the devs envisioned? Are they looking to make small changes but keep this pace largely intact? Or will they come out and say that the endgame was really rushed and that they want to slow everything down to early gameplay levels? Or something in between these extremes? Now that the game is in early access many players have given feedback on this topic and I think it's imperative that GGG give a clear response.

I tend to agree:

1. I want to understand [much more clearly] what GGG's vision is

2. I want to understand what changes will take place to apply GGG's vision

3. I want GGG to tell us "who" the game is for AND to have the stones to tell us who the game is not for


Example: If GGG's vision of endgame is similar to the "really good" builds we see now -- I.E. is basically PoE ver 1.5 then let us know so players which are not wanting that can find a different game they do want.

On the other hand for those people that reasonably expect / want PoE 1.0 but better graphics can find another game IF GGG intends to make PoE2 Dark Souls with PoE1 Rutheless mode loot.

If GGG doesn't reveal their vision, plans, etc. it's a disservice to them AND their players.

I dont want either PoE1 zoom zoom or the current slog that is path of elden ring. Doge roll is poorly done. If doge roll is not needed in the end game then why is it even in the game? Next up is the boring overly large doodle like areas and maps. If Im going to need to grind areas over and over again they need to be interesting and much smoother to clear 10-15 minutes per run is good if there is a benefit. If there is still no progression to be had from that other than just eeking out enough currency to go spend 20 minutes trying to buy something on trade then that is bad design. And for the enevitable git gud comments: ************** **********.

Nah man - my biggest question is "Will you ever let me remove the runes?"

While I've been ranting about how much I want a real AH, if it was that or artificer orbs being able to remove runes as well as create rune slots, I'd go with removing runes...


As far as the topic of the differences between the end game and the campaign - I actually kinda like how different it gets.

To me it creates a sense of progression from the slow paced to fast paced gameplay.

I think I'd get bored if maps felt as slow as say act 1 normal clear speed.

That’s an easy one to answer: it’ll remain the flawed game it is now. POE2 has so many issues that fixing them all seems nearly impossible.

Honestly, it might be cheaper to start fresh with a new game—one that brings real innovation and includes the quality-of-life features other games have had for years.

My question isn't their intention, its their intestinal fortitude to stick to their artistic vision slowing the endgame down (and balancing rewards and RNG to actually match that pace) so they didn't waste all the new design space on only the campaign. Thats the only real question.

I've already seen them capitulate to the vocal demands for dumb gameplay in POE1's clear speed meta debate; so its a reasonable question if they have the balls to stand up to them this time.

They split the game into its own thing so it could have slower pacing and POE1 fans could still have their dumb mindlessly repetitive gameplay that unintentionally resulted from GGG not having the experience to scope their game, nor the fortitude to fix it when this lack of scoping inevitably resulted in a dumb runaway condition that made their ARPG play like a space ship shooter.

Imagine throwing away 6 years of designing to revert POE2 into a graphics upgrade for POE1's clear speed meta space ship shooter game.

At least D4 doesn't have pretensions of being more than a dumbed down game.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

I've already seen them capitulate to the vocal demands for dumb gameplay in POE1's clear speed meta debate; so its a reasonable question if they have the balls to stand up to them this time.

They split the game into its own thing so it could have slower pacing and POE1 fans could still have their dumb mindlessly repetitive gameplay that unintentionally resulted from GGG not having the experience to scope their game, nor the fortitude to fix it when this lack of scoping inevitably resulted in a dumb runaway condition that made their ARPG play like a space ship shooter.

Imagine throwing away 6 years of designing to revert POE2 into a graphics upgrade for POE1's clear speed meta space ship shooter game.

At least D4 doesn't have pretensions of being more than a dumbed down game.

Hah I try to be more diplomatic about my feedback but honestly I agree with your insights. It feels like a shame if after all these years the most interesting and fresh design concepts are limited to the campaign.

I'll always remember "clear speed meta spaceship shooter" game when I think about how to describe the endgame now haha.

they said it is supposed to be slower than poe1, in fact, if you remove all mobility from poe1, then poe1 will be slower and less blasty than the current poe2..

In addition, the entry threshold to make your build work and access the pinnacle outside of citadels is a joke, everything does so much DMG, pinnacle bosses with 5m hp are a joke, there are easily 50 builds that can skip and instantly kill an arbiter etc..

gear stats overkill asf..

running only with melle mace and blowing up the whole screen after 3h after the campaign on T15+ maps is a joke..

overall poe2 has a good campaign, but after campaign the game is in bad state..
it is way too easy, everything is too op, on top the combo system is a meme..

I recommend all players to log into poe1 and see/feel the difference, poe2 will be in a playable state in 3-4 years in terms of real endgame, not earlier..

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

My question isn't their intention, its their intestinal fortitude to stick to their artistic vision slowing the endgame down (and balancing rewards and RNG to actually match that pace) so they didn't waste all the new design space on only the campaign. Thats the only real question.

I've already seen them capitulate to the vocal demands for dumb gameplay in POE1's clear speed meta debate; so its a reasonable question if they have the balls to stand up to them this time.

They split the game into its own thing so it could have slower pacing and POE1 fans could still have their dumb mindlessly repetitive gameplay that unintentionally resulted from GGG not having the experience to scope their game, nor the fortitude to fix it when this lack of scoping inevitably resulted in a dumb runaway condition that made their ARPG play like a space ship shooter.

Imagine throwing away 6 years of designing to revert POE2 into a graphics upgrade for POE1's clear speed meta space ship shooter game.

At least D4 doesn't have pretensions of being more than a dumbed down game.

What exactly is your imagined solution to prevent high end players from optimizing?

my best poe2 experiences were act 1-3 when things were CHALLENGING and meaningful. middle of act 2 became too easy when i got a big weapon upgrade. the bosses are fantastic as a melee monk when im not overpowered.

GGG: please keep the slower more methodical strategic gameplay and do not go for a boring zoomfest. poe1 is a zoomvest. ppl who WANT that can go play poe1. please make poe2 a grander vision with actual sophisticated gameplay.

right now the problem with maps: seems to devolve into a one shot the enemies or you get one shot type of mess. raise the enemy hp... but lower their damage. that would help balance things.



epic boss battle where i am not overpowered: fun gameplay!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnIUC-GEilY