Companion & Minion ROLE!

I have spent almost 1500 hours in different classes and tried always mixing my build with at least 1-2 Companion or Minion skills. Born in 1976 and playing since 1990 games that related in builds which being supported by fighting pets, Necromancer's Minions or Companions, I'm very familiar and experienced by this play style. In Poe2 i found some things disappointed and bad implemented.

1. First thing i encounter is the lack of aggro in all pets (Companions and Minions). Every pet should attract aggro from Boss in a way that minimize the Character's danger of being hit. In Poe2 we see pets as bad implemented folowers that doesn't have the protector role.

2. Pets are always devoted to their Char boss and thous sometimes sacrifizing themselves when noticing great threat in Char's life. I didn't see anything like that especially when i was Frozen, Stunned etc and my life was continuously falling under the limit of 'low life' value.

3. Companion & Minion AI sucks in all meanings when it comes to discuss the role of a fighting pet. What I'm mean is that when a Char trying avoid any hit by dodging, flying, jumbiing ( or whatever other avoiding move ), pets should continuously fight and hit Boss to secure the followings in the next Char's attack:

a. Hit to contaminate Boss with ailments.
b. Hit until reaching Boss in 'Low Life' conditions.
c. Hit to raise Boss 'buildup' conditions.
d. Hit until a successful Boss death.
e. Hit to reduce Mana or other significant bonuses like skills cooldown time effect.

4. A fighting pet is pet that needs upgrades while gaining xp through fights or other things like running, walking or even through specific items that can buff them. I know...i know, it's too much for this game but guess what will happen when having a life living pet in game and not just a 'skill' pet with on/off toggle button. Ton of people will come to game and spend hours making them better and powerful especially if they are gearable too!!!

5. Last but significantly important for Companions that should differ from Minions use, is the need of Char's buffing through pet's Auras! For example like Gorilla's physical aura. All companions should have buffing auras to help players strengthen their weak points. This implementation is innovative and will keep people's farming excitement in high levels. I think the Companion modifiers that are not auras, are useless in current state couse Companions damage power is way too low to notice something noticeable in Boss life even if a whole minute passes of a continuously attack. So Auras is the main point that Companion worth it from each own (excluding Lineage supports).

They seem adamant on forcing Minion clunkiness as the playstyles main "friction" which they're trying to do with all of them.

Unfortunately minions play like your a grown adult trying to lead a dozen crackheads around who sometimes listen.

"

Todos56#1491 wrote:

5. Last but significantly important for Companions that should differ from Minions use, is the need of Char's buffing through pet's Auras! For example like Gorilla's physical aura. All companions should have buffing auras to help players strengthen their weak points. This implementation is innovative and will keep people's farming excitement in high levels. I think the Companion modifiers that are not auras, are useless in current state couse Companions damage power is way too low to notice something noticeable in Boss life even if a whole minute passes of a continuously attack. So Auras is the main point that Companion worth it from each own (excluding Lineage supports).

I agree completely with Companion aura buffings. This is the most important thing to a pets that has nonexistent damage to enemies. The only difference in Minions damage is that if they are attack teaming in numbers you can see a small fall in Boss life even after huge nerfs in 0.2.0 patch. So basically Companions have no addable damage to Chars damage power. Physical Aura of Gorilla is completely joke because if my char has 200k DPS, the 2-3 increased DPS that Aura provides is nothing.

Devs need to make new plans for Companions otherwise is just a simple minion with noise.....

Minions are... fine. Not amazing, not unusable. Just fine.

But as someone actually playing pure-minion, the lack of aggression is straight-up gamebreaking. It's honestly a little sad watching them limp along like they don't have their own eyes and can only see through the master's eyeballs. An enemy can be literally hugging a minion and it still won't swing unless that enemy wanders close enough to me to get on my personal radar. Great system if the goal is "guard dog that only bites when you get bit first".

And in tight spaces? Corridors, doorways, little rooms? They fall apart. They don't push in, they don't clear corners, and trying to command them into a room is a coin flip because there's no real attack-move. You know, the basic "go there and hit things on the way" command that has existed since we were all playing RTS games on machines powered by hamsters.

Then there's the respawn/teleport thing. If you move ahead, eventually they pop next to you, but it takes way too long, and then they take another moment to remember violence is an option. They should snap back faster and start attacking faster. Right now it feels like I'm waiting for a late bus full of pacifists.

So yeah, overall they don't totally suck, but they could be a lot better. And I'm pretty sure they're this clunky for one simple reason: none of the devs actually main pure-minion.

Because pure-minion isn't just "I have pets". It's a mindset. You don't do the job yourself. You let the minions do the work, you support them, you debuff (or better, let them debuff automatically), you buff them, and you focus on staying alive and managing the fight. That's the whole fantasy.

PoE2 kind of handles that fantasy like it's an optional side hobby, rather than a real playstyle.

"

Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

Minions are... fine. Not amazing, not unusable. Just fine.

But as someone actually playing pure-minion, the lack of aggression is straight-up gamebreaking. It's honestly a little sad watching them limp along like they don't have their own eyes and can only see through the master's eyeballs. An enemy can be literally hugging a minion and it still won't swing unless that enemy wanders close enough to me to get on my personal radar. Great system if the goal is "guard dog that only bites when you get bit first".

And in tight spaces? Corridors, doorways, little rooms? They fall apart. They don't push in, they don't clear corners, and trying to command them into a room is a coin flip because there's no real attack-move. You know, the basic "go there and hit things on the way" command that has existed since we were all playing RTS games on machines powered by hamsters.

Then there's the respawn/teleport thing. If you move ahead, eventually they pop next to you, but it takes way too long, and then they take another moment to remember violence is an option. They should snap back faster and start attacking faster. Right now it feels like I'm waiting for a late bus full of pacifists.

So yeah, overall they don't totally suck, but they could be a lot better. And I'm pretty sure they're this clunky for one simple reason: none of the devs actually main pure-minion.

Because pure-minion isn't just "I have pets". It's a mindset. You don't do the job yourself. You let the minions do the work, you support them, you debuff (or better, let them debuff automatically), you buff them, and you focus on staying alive and managing the fight. That's the whole fantasy.

PoE2 kind of handles that fantasy like it's an optional side hobby, rather than a real playstyle.

Generally what you've described is the AI system that sucks. If i rate them i wouldn't give them more than 6/10 of what i have seen in other games in past two decades. Overall is not bad but they have potential to be even more better if Devs stop copying the ideas from PoE1 and implement new innovative ideas in minion behaviour.

Another thing is the command skills as you said but it affects mostly Char's behaviour rather than minions AI. Command a minion throwing arrow in a spesific place is the same as commanding to stay in a place and don't fall asleep staring at the stars....

60 spirit for nothing.... That's the value of Companions! If there wasn't Lineage support gems, Companions never would have been chosen as buff skills. Just tested their damage and is completely a joke. My companion took 60 sec to lower Boss life 1/1000. Pathetic implementation and I'm wondering what's the purpose of having them? Only for doing ailments? Even Dungeon Siege 2 which is 20 years old game, has better mimion AI.

Yeah, I still think minions are "good enough" in the sense that you can build tanky, eat the hits yourself, and let the minions do the damage. That part works.

What doesn't work is the other half of the fantasy: being the backline support while your minions actually front-line like they have a job. And that's what PURE-minion build is about - commanding minions to do everything, while you support them, not actually attacking or tanking enemies yourself.

I'd love a setup where the tanky minions (hound/brute/melee types) hold aggro, the backliners do DPS, and I play the support role. Right now that's basically a fairytale, because monsters mostly ignore the minions and beeline the main character like I'm wearing a neon "FREE KILLS" sign.

And then there's the AI. Minions don't just feel passive, they feel legally blind. Half the time they won't attack unless the enemy is close enough to lick my boots, even when the monster is right next to them. It should be the other way around: minions should be eager to engage, and I should be the one calling them back if they're wandering off like toddlers in a supermarket. At minimum, let the player choose a behavior mode.

Also, the "respawn" behavior needs to stop being one-size-fits-all. If a minion actually dies, sure, make me wait for the respawn timer. Fine. But when minions get yanked back because I moved too far (or weapon swapped, or whatever), they should start attacking immediately. That's not "respawning", that's "teleporting because the pathing is having a moment". Those should be treated differently.

And yes, cooldowns between casts still apply. I'm talking about the respawn timer specifically, which is not the same thing as skill cooldowns.

So my suggestions are pretty simple:
1) Add a mode toggle (passive/aggressive) so minions actually behave like minions, not decorative accessories.
2) If minions return due to distance/forced recall (not death), they should start attacking/casting immediately.

PS: Minion damage isn't the issue, it's aggressiveness. I can delete "standing targets" (bosses, rares, etc.) in seconds, but when you're moving through the map they just don't start fights fast enough to compete with normal map-clear builds.

"

Joliema#2513 wrote:

60 spirit for nothing.... That's the value of Companions! If there wasn't Lineage support gems, Companions never would have been chosen as buff skills. Just tested their damage and is completely a joke. My companion took 60 sec to lower Boss life 1/1000. Pathetic implementation and I'm wondering what's the purpose of having them? Only for doing ailments? Even Dungeon Siege 2 which is 20 years old game, has better mimion AI.

I fully agree. When you have 10 minions the damage power is noticable but one Companion can't even kill a small spider in the time you pass quickly from an area. Companions need huge increases in damage power. One Companion should do at least 30k DPS otherwise is just a decorative and costly statue. Not all builds rely their builds in ailments, so spending 40-60 spirit expecting also big support by Companion's DPS.

Command skills are also important. Companion attacks only if the character attacks. If Char trying to avoid Boss hits, companion folows like a stupid gold collector boy!

"

Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

So my suggestions are pretty simple:
1) Add a mode toggle (passive/aggressive) so minions actually behave like minions, not decorative accessories.
2) If minions return due to distance/forced recall (not death), they should start attacking/casting immediately.

PS: Minion damage isn't the issue, it's aggressiveness.

I totally agree, especially with the first one. If there is an option for Minion/Companion aggressive mode, no pet will waste time between taking initiative to attack and taking the attack action.

No offense, but if your companion "can't even do 30k DPS", there's a decent chance the companion isn't the problem.

On my end, I'm running 24x Skeletal Storm Mages and I'm seeing roughly 150k per minion unbuffed, and closer to ~300k per minion once buffs/hits are rolling. That's not even "insane streamer spreadsheet" territory. It can go higher if you start leaning on the whole spectre weirdness, but I'd rather not turn my build into a tax audit of unintended mechanics.

For context, I tested the pre-nerf "cocaine ants" setup and it was trivially 15M+ DPS. So yes, damage exists. The game can absolutely do damage. It just chooses violence very selectively.

The real trade here is pretty obvious. You trade speed for DPS. If you (and your minion blob) move slower, you usually hit harder. My character is basically a glass cannon with commitment issues, so I'm fine playing slower and letting the army do the work. I don't enjoy zooming around the map like I'm late for a dentist appointment anyway.

So yeah, I'm not saying companions/minions feel perfect. The AI and responsiveness complaints are fair. But "30k DPS or it's decorative" feels like blaming the spoon because the soup is cold.