t17 meta is quite boring?

T17 was a good idea but done poorly.
We have this rich endgame maps system letting you chose which maps you want to run but now you are forced into few shitty layouts.
If I had any say in it I would just have a T17 version for each map, running T16 Atoll would drop T17 Atolls and so on. For bosses? Killing map boss would generate a portal like Conqueror maps or just flat our remove them and find another use for those bosses. (With this suggestion Uber boss splinters would drop from the non uber variant)

i also like this idea. t17 jungle valley with rippy mods would certainly be fun ;)
and instead of fighting the normal t16 boss...valdo comes and removes him and makes a portal to a random t17 boss. ;)

and you could add uber fragments to league mechanics so they become more viable?
do legion get uber maven
do ritual get uber exarch etc

or as another user said. add the 2000 quant back to league mechanics now that we do not have player quant.
or just add 30 player quant once we reach lvl 100 for free
or maybe 10 quant if you reach 100 and ~5 quant for each uber boss?

"

Tomoee wrote:

exactly that. at least one guy got the point ;D
if we block all league mechanics on t16 AND t17 they are clearly underperforming.
and that's why i said they need a buff.

i mean you can do harvest and take 7 div per map if the gamble goes well.
and sometimes you have a good base in ritual synth/fracture

but others just don't drop anymore and feel pointless.



to the other poster. you don't have to say that you did not read. since you missed the point. i can see that myself ;D
it does not matter if i can afford to buy t17 maps or not.
i even wrote later if you amassed wealth it is no big problem! and the divine you invest give you more divines than you invested.

but
at some point everyone has to do the t17 map farm until your build is ready and until you can skip that part with your stocked divines.

but even then you block all league mechanics cause they underperform.
the scarab prices tell you exactly what mechanics work and which do not. and most are 1c thus do not work at all compared to other strats.

you can also do profit on 8 mod with cheap ambush scarabs but that's.. .again not my point ;D

I missed your point because you are bad at making it. Youre complaining about T17 maps, but making statements about the lack of profit in T16s, which is entirely unrelated.

T16's have plenty of ways to make money, just because you havent tried them or did them wrong doesnt make them worthless.

Harbi, Alva, Einhar, Harvest, all capable of generating consistent decent div/hr. Can't speak to the other mechanic, I don't run those, but I'm sure there are others.

Yes, ground loot/world drops have definitely taken a hit this league. Yes, that has affected how profitable mapping feels in general, which I agree feels bad.
Yes, running T17's helps alleviate that, due to their boosted rarity/quant/loot mods

How that equates to T17's sucking, well it doesn't.
They had major issues, and GGG addressed those.
They still have minor issues, but so do alot of mechanics. If minor issues makes something suck, then the game sucks and you should quit.


Really what this boils down to is you jumping on the poor me pity party that is the POE subreddit. GGG already gave in to that BS and over nerfed T17's to make them more accessible. If they are still to hard for you, then you aren't end-game ready or are just unwilling to learn/cope with the mechanics.

Guide to enjoying T17's:

1. Grind your end-game ready character.
2. Acquire enough capital to prepare 20 T17 maps. This includes rolling them, scarabs, and the maps them selves. You dont need to be"rich" do to this. But you do need some div. If you don't have end-game money, stop complaining about end-game content and go finish your farming.
3. Roll your maps to avoid build disabling mods
4. Run the maps. Take note of the problem modifiers that remain, optimize regex for next set of maps.
5. Profit and Repeat

T17s are fine but we need more of them. Five layouts for the entire game is not enough.

It's endgame farm. If you're not getting there on week one - fine, you're not playing 100 hours in that week one. You'll get there week 3 or 4, that's ok.

T16 maps are in a decent spot this league, plenty of profitable strats going on.

Really what this boils down to is you jumping on the poor me pity party that is the POE subreddit. GGG already gave in to that BS and over nerfed T17's to make them more accessible. If they are still to hard for you, then you aren't end-game ready or are just unwilling to learn/cope with the mechanics.

look.
i will simplify it for you. since you are obviously a reddit clown that only goes maybe you are not rich enough or it is to hard for you.

because this should be a constructive post about how to improve mechanics to make them more fun and you are not participating at all and you do not read and still go blablabla.

like asmongold always said. doing the bosses is fun in wow. but walking back to the boss is boring!!! why do we have to spend so much time with that?

to help you step by step here. doing the t16 to farm t17 is the walking back to the boss part ok?
now what has this to do with the t17 meta? how is this related?
again just for you.

the meta is called such because its the most efficient way to do things.
according to you t16 is fine ok. if you have time to spend 70 hours farming a mirror instead of 30...sure do so. no problem. but unlike people who spend their time on reddit i value my time. that's why we are meta slaves.

BUT the current meta is quite boring.
so i don't know why you go if its to hard for you....no that would be fun.
challenge is fun. you know?

i beat t17 easy last league with only a ele bow. i beat it on zizzs ice nova build on day four (started late 2 weeks ago)
its not hard. its boring. now why is it boring?

because the meta forces you to do t17 and where do you get them? you run t16 in a way that is no fun. because if you want to drop maps you just go shrines + altars + map nodes and thats it.

and sure often you can skip that step by JUST BUYING t17. as i said before.
but each time you buy the next big item or at the start of the league until your character can handle it...you are forced to do the boring part again.
and its boring because you don't get maps from league mechanics. this would be fine and versatile. less stale and repetitive.
its boring because you block all content and just run naked maps to get other harder maps.

the metaphor before said t17 are the boss fights in wow. but that is also not really true.
because also on t17 the META right now is boring. you block all content and run wisps. OR you do strongboxes.

and if you minmax and value your time those two are your best options.
now if the other options would be lets say 25 vs 30 div/h
i would not be here cause it would not matter much time wise.

but if the meta vs non meta is 10div per hour vs 30+ it matters. because my time is limited. obviously i choose the option that only needs 1/3 of the time to reach my league goals gear/farm wise.

and that said meta (as the title says) is quite boring.
when i said the same about d4 endgame people like you showed up. much later everyone left because.... it was boring.

even fubgun started to run harvest just because after boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes and more boxes he needed some diversity.

and if you think about why we do not have diversity...then the root of that is the t17. why do i say that? well t17 was one of the main reasons they removed quant gear.
no quant is one of the main reasons why most league mechanics are not as viable as they used to be. (and as someone claimed because they nerfed their quant as well)
native monsters just drop better. this effect obviously gets multiplied by the t17 modifiers that give you more scarabs and currency. gets more multiplied by quant altars etc.
so in the end we block league mechanics and just do wisps/strongboxes.

and compared to before where you could make all mechanics viable to more or less the same degree. it is very stale and very much limits your options and makes it way more repetitive. in affliction sure abyss was meta. but it had other league mechanics that came very close to it. since wisps and quant gear boosted all mechanics. even ritual even Alva etc.
now they all suck compared to native monsters.

why did they remove quant gear? mainly because it limited the number of builds that could do the t17 difficulty while wearing quant gear instead of damage. and probably also to nerf group play?
so now many more builds can run t17. they also nerfed them a bit so we don't have to use regex like last league. and we do not have to roll for 100c! that is super great. nice change i agree on that.
this league i did not use any regex because my build can run most of them. the few i hate i can avoid without it. and i could run them if i want. but its not very time efficient so i rather roll 20 times for a good scarab/currency roll.

that does not change the fact that for me if you are limited to do 2 strats it becomes very boring! if you value your time and by that follow the meta that is most time efficient it gets very stale. especially if both strats just let you run naked maps with native monsters.
naked maps where not much exciting can happen since loot explosions are gone and the current league mechanic is not in the maps itself gold aside.
its just running maps with no mechanics hoping for currency and scarabs. thats it.

the league mechanic on the other hand is genius. its nice.

it is very cool that you can let your sims do stuff while you work and then u come home and get some Valdo's or some divs. then you have the base build like in a mobile game and can send the ships for extra profit. even if my 50mil got no shard its cool.
bossing is super nice since the changes! doing them feels great and rewarding.
sanctum is still great. so is delve.
heist, simulacrum and legion not so much.
but as you can see there are still plenty reasons for me to still play the game even if i think mapping atm is boring.

and again the post is not about ranting its to find ways to make league mechanics viable again.
if you think they are fine and the current meta is cool. wrong forum thread for you? you may walk on.
all others are cool people that actually bring ideas on how to make the game cooler. because that is what the devs luckily try each league ;)
with great success and i love that the newer changes are more fundamental and more daring!

but feedback is nice. so are ideas.
and that's constructive. and i already did read a few cool ideas

but people like you are the reason why I'm normally not on forums and certainly never on reddit unless i need it for information.

and besides if you buff league mechanics and let them drop uber fragments even if its at a low chance... or let them drop t17 maps...or add them to ritual rewards or rog etc....

theyr scarabs would be more worth and t16 would be more viable and more fun again. of course they would still be better on t17 but the gap would not be as big.
or then if t17 are so much better in farm. add more layouts make it cheaper to sustain them like old endgame maps were.
if the difficulty is the gatekeeping im totally fine with that. make them harder but cheaper ;D new song?

I feel they just went entirely the wrong direction with mapping.

The progression between T1 and T16 should be more steady and the non-story bosses around 40% stronger. Ubers just shouldn't be a thing. Juice it harder if you want. They're overlapping mechanic on mechanic and it's gotten beyond silly.

This is the first league since Ultimatum where I've had problems seeing what's going on. Between walking near a ritual, influence, wisps and more pack size it's ridiculous.

and to be fair to Ultimatum it was a small arena. Not the map in general.

"

Piousqd wrote:

1. Do you like when your loot filter makes the good noise? I do, so yes it is fun. T17's are insanely rewarding.

I hate having to make my loot filter progressively more strict just so I can see anything.

So no I actually really hate how much loot spam is on t17s especially basically all of it is worthless after the first week.

to be blunt the current loot situation in poe is pretty dumb. Sure you get noises all the time.. but most of it is for scarabs , currency or the handful of chase unique items the devs put in the game to make sure an entire item type was not worthless.

Need I remind you that an entire core mechanic of this league was melting down the many many MANY worthless uniques the game projectile vomits at your face every second into some amorphous purple dust mostly used to literally convert into raw currency?

"

Piousqd wrote:

2. Complaining that T17's require you to care about game mechanics just seems ridiculous. T17 are end game content. You should not be able to blast through endgame content, ignoring all the mods and not dying, without being insanely over geared. The problem is you got used to being able to do that in T16's and now that T17's exist, you feel like you should just automatically be allowed to do that there too. T17's were created as a new tier of mapping difficulty, and they are very good at that.

What are you talking about My whole point is that the current game mechanics are designed around you picking a build that does not care about them rather than engaging them.

I did half of my t17s unidentified. My build gave zero fucks about t17s mods except for like 1 or 2 and even then once I was level 100 that dropped to 1 so I would not lose my AG to Equalizing.

All those mods did was reduce the number of alternative builds I would feel like trying. Because why the fuck would I deal with those mods when I do not need too?

"

Piousqd wrote:

3. GGG has done a great job addressing issues with T17.

Considering how many complaint posts I have seen this claim is very much subjective.

"

Piousqd wrote:

4. The fact that you have so many things that you say you have "given up on" says more about your game knowledge and gearing than it does about any actual issues with game design.

Ha someone is slinging mud.

"

Piousqd wrote:

-You can reroll maps, roll a map that doesnt have mods you legit can't do
-Build better defenses. Example, reflect immunity is available from a variety of sources.

Or I could just not do that by picking a build that ignores them. That seems easier than wasting item mods and passives. especially when I do not really lose anything by doing so.

yep, the non-universal character of T17 'difficulty' is a problem

melee builds? fu
certain types of defences? fu
susceptible to ailments/effects that are not present in the rest of the game? fu

sure, rolling with reg. expressions is cool, makes some people feel that they are coding or hacking the system. cool.

but why bother with all that if you can pick a build(s. there are more than 1) that simply says fu to all this

build diversity? lol.

sure, you can do them on many builds, but again - why bother with substandard options?

add to that the rain of rewards and inflation caused by the sheer loot vomit. it is affliction all over again

Then dont run them.

No changes in this game should be made based on some FOMO idea. Thats this entire thread, and its defenders.


Otherwise, apply this same logic to builds and I guess everyone who doesnt run LS or Hexblast are just missing out right?


Apply that across however many leagues TShot was the #1 spot for and how many of your characters were Tshot? If they werent then you were playing substandardly according to your logic.



T17s are fine.

And so is melee.

Yeah T17s are still bad, annoying to run and only the top 0.0001% with their mirror builds get to profit from them. Very fair and fun game design I know. "Just don't run them" isn't a solution. That's like saying "just don't play the game" if anyone says anything sucks in it. This is a feedback forum, and we're giving our feedback on these maps. They're unbalanced and the game was way better before t17s with just the uber boss keystones on the atlas tree.

"

Toforto wrote:

Yeah T17s are still bad, annoying to run and only the top 0.0001% with their mirror builds get to profit from them. Very fair and fun game design I know. "Just don't run them" isn't a solution. That's like saying "just don't play the game" if anyone says anything sucks in it. This is a feedback forum, and we're giving our feedback on these maps. They're unbalanced and the game was way better before t17s with just the uber boss keystones on the atlas tree.

Dont run t17s if you dont like them is a completely valid thing to say. Since your grievances have everything to do with their profit. You can run them for completion one time and then go back to t16s.

You are already missing out by not playing the builds you deem only able to run them. So you cant use the argument of FOMO here to support any changes.

We have already had this conversation and you kind of just repeat the same silly talking points as seen below

"

"

Toforto wrote:

perfect mirror-costing builds that abuse every defensive layer in this game.

"

Toforto wrote:

t17s were made to be farmed by those specific 3 builds and nothing else. Very cool game design.

"

Toforto wrote:

Hurr durr just build defences just copy paste everyone's hc ssf meta build and do the boring checklist while having 500k dps and being tanky" isn't a solution to this problem.

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Toforto wrote:

Yes such good game design, only the top 0.000000001% who have 10 mirror builds can farm t17s for good rewards by abusing rogue exiles, meanwhile everyone else suffers. Very cool.

"

Toforto wrote:

Then people are forced to play unfun expensive builds if they don't wanna "miss out"

So you believe there are 3 builds, all being 10 mirrors or more, that do 500k dps, that people are forced to play, that only 0.000000001% can do for good rewards from t17s. But are actually top 0.0001% with mirror builds now because you cant make up your mind on that one.