Map Drops in The Awakening

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comradespike wrote:

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For players to find the highest tiers of maps challenging to complete and to sustain

You know reading alot of these beta changes has given suspicion about GGG and Chris's vision but this quote right here completely confirms it. GGG is completely out-of-sync with the actual community. They are balancing based around the <1% of no-lifers, professional streamers, and Hald-liners purists that want nerfs to everything. Forcing level 80+ into 70 level maps due to RNG is NOT ok. Who gives a shit if someone invests the effort to hit level 100? Do Exalts start raining from the sky at level 100? Why do we feel the need to bring others down instead of lifting everyone up? It's all smoke and mirrors... You think because Flamebast gets nerfed, your build becomes better? It doesn't- now they both suck. the attitude of staff and a small whiny faction of the playerbase is sickening. The Awakening will definitely be that for a lot of players. They will wake up and find another game.

This. Closed Beta so far is definitely "Awakening". I'm sure players will not leave initially as the new content is a blast. However medium and long term ( 3 months + ) this MASSIVE map nerf could be the nail in the coffin for PoE.

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Chris wrote:

The change of having only map bosses drop +2 level maps is not intended as a strict nerf. Those bosses now drop additional items, so you should see more +2 maps from them. It's worth noting that +2 maps are a dangerous thing. They can cause players to get out of their depth - playing maps that are too hard for the items they currently have. We expect these changes to both help with this situation and to also provide an understandable way to have a chance at a +2 map: killing the map boss.

Chris, one of the key design philosophies that makes your game so great is that historically you have allowed us (the players) to make our own decisions, and then face the consequences of those decisions. I think if you applied the same philosophy that are you articulating about players getting maps that they aren't ready for to the passive skill tree you would need to force players to start taking defensive passive points when they had what you felt were too many offensive points, relative to their defensive stats....

"Sorry, you cannot select any more +Physical Damage nodes until you have at least +150% increased life and +150% increased Armour. Playing maps with certain mods will be too hard for the skill tree that you currently have."

Silly example, I know. I want to make an important point: we the players should decide what is dangerous for us, not you guys. If we can clear a map, we should be able to progress to the next level of maps, and maintain our map pool at or very close to the level of map that we can clear. If we overextend ourselves, we'll die. We get this and we like it like that. We don't like running L68 maps when L76 maps are what we should be running based on the items and currency that WE FEEL WE HAVE.

i'm wondering if GGG has tossed around the idea of making map bosses more like MMO raid style bosses. give them different "stages" that require different tactics, and maybe even an "enrage" that will annihilate everyone if they don't kill it within a certain time period. i think this could work really well if bosses were more challenging and fun. of course this would require thorough balancing which i imagine is extremely difficult

i'm also worried about players making builds with the specific purpose of killing these high level map bosses, and then skipping everything and going straight to the boss. this could be a potentially exploitative way of getting a huge high level map pool extremely quickly(assuming more than one map can drop). they could then sell the maps or run them with their friends.

edit: and please make alterations drop more often, or give a vendor recipe for them or something. i'm constantly out of alts trying to roll maps

Awesome idea GGG!!!

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Serleth wrote:

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Mr_Bill wrote:

1. People skip bosses because the cant do them so having them drop more doesn't help them. So lowering the drop rate for the rest of of the map will mean that it will be harder to maintain even a same level pool of maps.

I honestly don't see the issue here. There are 62 regular map bases in 1.3 right now. Of those, the majority of people I play with and know only skip two bosses with regularity: Jungle Valley, and Labryinth. That's only 3.2% of the map bosses. I'll go ahead and throw in Graveyard Merveil, Residence and Palace Dominus to bring the total up to five. That's still only 8% of the bosses.

Are there any others people are skipping with regularity?

In HC I usually skip: jungle valley, torture chamber, necropolis merveil and palace dominus. More or less that, depending on build weaknesses/strengths maybe one or two others (like labyrinth/colonnade early on)
Notice though that map bosses will supposedly become more challenging, the only way to find out how much more challenging will be to try them (and rip lol).

Hopefully at least exiles and other uniques will still drop +2, but overall despite the seeming slight nerf, we have had things that have helped like zana missions and the device, so I hope things will not get out of hand.

"For players to find the highest tiers of maps challenging to complete and to sustain"

"and to sustain"
most frustrating part of the whole game.
gating lvlng content behind rng.
lower the exp gain or change the penalty system - but dont make us run boring non rewarding low maps even more than we have to currently.

but i do agree that bosses need to be more rewarding - skipping bosses isnt fun either

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MosesXIII wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Note that they will now be the only monsters that drop maps two tiers above the current map level.

Please make any unique enemy able to drop +2 maps. This could give more weight to exile/double boss rolls on maps, and exile rolls on boxes.

Agree 100% - exiles and invasion bosses should at least have a chance as well (maybe not as good as the boss, but still).

From the OP "+2 maps might result in players getting maps that are too hard for their items" (paraphrased). wth? I thought this game was hardcore and anti-hand-holding lol. Come on Chris!

If I try a map or suffix combo that's too hard to do, I learn the lesson.

Can't kill the boss guys, Too bad, try next time :)
Considering doing bosses as a unnecessary risk with little to no reward? Now you will have reward.

I don't skip bosses and I approve this update & philosophy.

As long as going to risk against bosses is going to be worth it.

Please consider nerfing -max and reflect map mods. Right now its too suicidal. Anyone with some braincells would only do easy mods since risk isnt worth the potential "reward" at high levels.
Map drop are quaranteed to be crap anyway... its totally random so why risk it?

Also please nerf these snobs playing only 78 pack + dom. There arent any normal 78 groups for people without infinite chaos orbs. And even when i get few hundret chaos id rather not spend them frivolously.

Please nerf xp gains too, level 100 is too easy to gain, only took me a years worth of playing.

PS!
Btw what is this bullcrap about "+2 is dangerous and people go to too hard maps undergeared"? Why would anyone care? Let them go and rip and fail, whats that of anyones concern? Or is this just a dumb excuse for nerfing it? Dont be shy you can admit it.

Was GGG taken over by corporations while I wasnt looking? EA ? Activision ? Ubisoft?

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Marxone wrote:

Can't kill the boss guys, Too bad, try next time :)
Considering doing bosses as a unnecessary risk with little to no reward? Now you will have reward.

I don't skip bosses and I approve this update & philosophy.

Yeah, let's see if this is rewarding enough.

I saw that before "more rewarding", yeah right... More like +200% boss life and +5% more items from it.