Map Drops in The Awakening
" Witcher 3 seems really interesting. From what i hear its a really good game, but dont buy it before you investigate it ofcourse! Path of Exile - RNG based hoarding simulator
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" There's plenty incentive to play harder maps as it is already, the balance is how much currency to spend rolling a hard enough map that has as few or none of the "no-go" mods (such as blood magic, temp chains, no regen) as possible. In hardcore leagues players either roll maps that are just hard enough to be safe to play, or spending as little currency as possible to grind through a surplus map tier to progress to higher tiers. Rolling harder maps is not an option in the first case, and make little sense in the latter. " Those map bosses which are high-risk (generally due to prevalence of one-shots) are skipped, buffing their loot a bit will not make them more playable in a hardcore league. Players will elect the safe route rather than risk losing their characters in each and every map boss fight. " This is a point that comes up frequently, the disparity between mapping groups at one end and solo and self-found players at the other end. As a solo player in a temporary league it used to be nigh impossible to reach and maintain a map pool at 74 and higher without spending all your currency, the introduction of strongboxes and masters have alleviated this to a great extent to the point where you will still suffer dry spells (as drops based on map-wide random seeds rather than a per-drop roll will always result in) but it doesn't feel like you're banging your head against the wall all the time. Buy 10-20 74 maps and have a build that allows you to run fairly difficult rolled maps and you can typically sustain 74+ mapping even as a solo player. We used to have the experience of it taking alot more effort. It sucked, it sucked so bad I stopped playing several times out of sheer frustration. Going back to that point after we've seen the situation improve would be severly dejecting. Additionally, mapping groups sell maps below the highest tier to solo players and casuals, if they're getting fewer drops solo players will have to part with far more of their currency if they want to buy maps. " As pointed out above, reducing map drops is a very poor design choice. " There are several push-over map bosses that could sorely need a bit of revitalization, but there also needs to be easier map bosses for new players to hone their skills. If every map boss is a road block, why traverse the road at all? " Limiting +2 maps to map bosses is fine unless map drops overall are nerfed and/or already difficult (frequently skipped) map bosses get more difficult. Instead of tweaking drop rates why not fix the poor system of gating map progression behind pseudo-randomness and swap it to map progression through an actual build/skill check? Keep map drops as is for the two highest levels of maps, for all map levels below: reduce map drops, grant a guaranteed map drop of equal or +1 level upon full clear of the map. Still scared of Igna? Here's incentive to grab that ruby flask from your stash. Getting mauled by that physical map boss? Sure wish you'd thought of that when you planned your build. If you can and bother to kill everything in each map you should be able to keep mapping, not run ten 76 maps in a row with only a 68 and a 73 to show for it and leave the game with the joyous feeling of being kicked in the groin repeatedly by the holy (pseudo-)rnghost. So much in this game rewards player skill, it's weird the map system still to a large degree doesn't. |
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Every part of making mapping harder makes it a currency/RNG gate.
If it's truly a difficulty gate, then make it so that quantity on maps matter more than they do now. I don't know how, but it has to happen for this change to make sense. Make it so that it's easier to roll them, too. Maps have higher chance of rolling 5+ mods on alch. Damage mods like additional damage and vulnerability have higher chance to roll. I WILL do all these maps, but I need them to appear for me to run them. If it's a difficulty gate and not a currency/rng gate, then make it so that I can get to this "challenging" content. Hell, make it so that rare maps can have 8+ mods like corrupted maps can. Make it so that they can have 10 mods for that matter. Make it so that if there is a build that can do every single map mod, then there is a map that actually HAS every single map mod. I don't care how difficult it ends up being but if it will drop maps like you are saying, then I will find a way to run it. ALSO. How about considering that minimum drop level like we've all suggested a million times? If that additional map drop from a lv82 "upgraded to be more dangerous" boss is a 68 map, then what's the freaking point. just a scrub. Last edited by digitalized#0238 on Jun 9, 2015, 8:19:15 PM
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" so you basically want "gear score" ? lol no thanks... then they should just add DPS meters |
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" I think he meant your success or failure against the monsters would be the check. Regardless, gear score measured, well, gear :/. Not build/skill. Gear would of course also be a factor in your success or failure and thus map progression, but it is any way, as are build and skill, but only if access to the content is first granted, currently (and it seems planned more so for 2.0) by the use of orbs which other people found and a favourable map RNG seed. Casually casual.
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This all sounded good except for the part about sustaining high tier maps. I'm not sure why that's part of your goals. It seems like one of the least interesting mechanics in the games, and basically forces a lot of players to play against content well under their capabilities a significant portion of their time. I'm not sure how that generates any fun.
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" i find maps pretty fun and i've done a lot of them. i do wish there were more max level maps(only four gets pretty boring and tedious, especially when they are fps killers like palace). i understand that reaching a high level is a huge grind. i don't expect it to be easy, and maybe everyone else shouldn't either. |
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So... full mirrored geared guys can get TONS free +2 lvl maps and progress like CRAZY while self-found and mid-geared and just bad balanced poor builds will stack at NO drop maps?
It is like when GGG release Atziri content and some ppl get RICH in no time and monopolize ALL and EVERYTHING, they got everything and other only lost. Hey GGG, i know that you don't really read your forum, but maybe stop power boost OP builds? Maybe stop make bad game, orienteering on no-lifers? Please GGG read: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1282118 Settlers master craft service Settlers My IGN TreeOfDead
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2037371 Vouch Settlers veiled crafting all service all crafts mods Settlers SC master craft service Settlers SC craft mod! Veiled crafting Service Settlers craft PM: TreeOfDead |
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" This is good. I applaud decisions that are based on data, as long as the data is good and the decisions logically follow from that. " I'm sorry, big fella, but you lost me right there. How does the data you collected tell you about how and why players choose to do any particular behavior? We're talking motivations here, and data like that can only come from truthful feedback from the players, not from server data. I don't recall filling out a survey or participating in a focus group on how and why players are not choosing to play harder maps. Perhaps instead of using it to roll maps, players are saving their currency to purchase items, since there's very little chance something that fits a) their build, and b) their level is going to drop naturally at their feet when they need it to progress. Or perhaps they don't feel that the amount they spend in currency to roll tougher mods results in a corresponding increase in higher-level map drops. It sounds like you are making several assumptions, and shaky ones at that, unless you have truthful player feedback to support this assertion. And your goal is to direct the game so that players are more likely to "choose" to do this? I'm interested to see what kind of rewards you think are sufficient to motivate that sort of "choice", in light of the fact that currency is a limited resource, is more generally useful in purchasing or crafting new/better gear, and rolling to maintain high map tiers has been a prodigiously expensive endeavor in the past. But the most disturbing assumption I read here is the one that implies "players want to play higher level maps". I don't know that this is a true statement for a large segment of the player base. Even if it's true, it might be masking a different "want" than you think. Perhaps what the players "want" is to gain more XP, or have access to better drops. This a very different desire than the one you're assuming. Since you've set an artificial barrier to XP and higher-level items behind those higher-level maps, players must play those higher-level maps, well-rolled. That doesn't strike me as much of a "choice" at all. " If it's only happening "occasionally", are you sure it's a problem? More importantly, are you sure it's a problem for the player, and not just a problem for you? And how do you deduce that it's a problem by using server data? And how do you know that the problem (if it exists) stems from a lack of incentive, as opposed to what the player feels are a lack of challenging yet beatable game mechanics? Do you have truthful data to back up such a string of assumptions? " I must ask once again, are you sure this is what your players want, as opposed to what you want? Does the player find that the satisfaction of obtaining a high-level map drop generally outweighs the much more common disappointment of lower-level or non-existent map drops? Does the ability to use recipes to farm currency on maps that don't result in an improvement to the map pool compensate this disappointment sufficiently? I don't know the answers to these questions, and I'm beginning to doubt you do either. " How do you know those groups are "happily" sustaining their pools? What server data is telling you they are in a state of bliss as they spend ever more currency rolling maps? Could it be possible that they are actually grudgingly spamming vast amounts of currency to maps because they really have no other choice, due to the barriers to progress you've set in place? And why do you assume that this is a state more players want to experience? Do you have data that verifies this hypothesis? And why are you basing a decision that affects your entire user-base on something that "several" "groups" of players are doing? Is the sample large enough to suggest that the majority of the user-base wants to do the same thing? And is willing to put forth the effort and currency to replicate the experience? And will derive the same level of "happiness"? And will part ways with their preferred solo-play behavior to do so? I will tell you a stone-cold truth. A business does not succeed by giving customers what the business wants. It succeeds (in part) by giving customers what those customers want. You need to ask yourself if you're running a business, or sharing a public hobby. If it's a business you're running, then you need to take a hard look at your data and make absolutely certain you aren't falling prey to "vanity metrics". There are two very good books I'd like to recommend to you. As an entrepreneur, I've found them very helpful in focusing on my customers instead of myself. The first is called "The Lean Startup". The second is called "The Mom Test". They are available here and here: http://www.amazon.com/The-Lean-Startup-Entrepreneurs-Continuous/dp/0307887898 http://www.amazon.com/The-Mom-Test-customers-business/dp/1492180742 |
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As I understand it GGG is rewarding their noisy 5% hardcore players who have plenty of time playing the game whole days and on the otherside is punishing their 95% casual players not permitting them end game maps. How devestating this is and what a let down for solo players.
Bravo! Last edited by Malvan#0542 on Jun 10, 2015, 1:05:50 AM
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