Map drops - assessment of 2.0.0, and changes coming in 2.0.2

I dont even show my supporter tags. No free advertising until they get this fixed. I'm not real proud of it ATM either. Basically I'm all dressed up with no place to go (capable with no decent maps). Feel stood up by that hot girl who said yes just to get me out of her face and didnt show.

I think map sysetm is good now and no matter what GGG will do people will still moan how PoE endgame is bad


Only thing I would want to see is more interesting bosses like Torture Chamber Map boss

Cool, man. Having your thoughts on this just feels better.

"

Dawmz wrote:

What matters is that I have a profound respect for GGG because of one thing : they are one of the last game companies who usually doesn't compromise with their visions of the game because of whiny feedbacks and/or players satisfaction level. They do the game that they want, the game that they like, and if a lot of people are liking it also, it's nice, if not, it's not the end of the world, other games exist. And this is great.

I think that there is no problem with GGG sticking to it's vision. The problem is with quality of this vision.

Can you show any other game, where game content is gated before players capable to do that content? By "capable" I mean able to finish that content, not just able to buy into it.

This is fundamental flaw with basic assumptions of GGG vision for me. And no matter they will tweak with numbers will change it.

But this is just derivative of their biggest design flaw aka "everything is for sales". Imagine, what would look like if maps would not be tradeable? Would Etup were 100 now if really need to loot all maps he run, no shortcuts?

So, they design very punitive endgame, but encouraged way of playing their game is to use cheats of trade to avoid this punitiveness. Completely lack of logic.

In longer run, I really think that greater rifts system is much better though as endgame solution. Here is was known as Maelstrom of Chaos, so no wonder that we constantly have voices to bring it back, even if we haven't seen it for years here.

"

tmaciak wrote:

I think that there is no problem with GGG sticking to it's vision. The problem is with quality of this vision.

Can you show any other game, where game content is gated before players capable to do that content? By "capable" I mean able to finish that content, not just able to buy into it.

This is fundamental flaw with basic assumptions of GGG vision for me. And no matter they will tweak with numbers will change it.

That's a totally subjective point of view, and maybe the fact that no other games do things the way PoE does them is precisely WHY I'm playing PoE and not other games. I'm playing PoE because I like the oldschool feel it has, and because other games do not have that.
You can think that this design is flawed, it's entirely up to you. GGG never tried to cater to the masses, else we'd have free full respecs, an auction house, better drops, etc... since years. I'm all for player feedback but I don't want the feedback to taint the original intent of the game. You embrace it or you play something else.

"

But this is just derivative of their biggest design flaw aka "everything is for sales". Imagine, what would look like if maps would not be tradeable? Would Etup were 100 now if really need to loot all maps he run, no shortcuts?

Again, you can consider that a flaw. I consider that a major selling point of the game. The economy is a very core point of the game, they said so themselves here : https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/55102/ and I quote : "Path of Exile’s economy is the most important element of the game to us".
And again, I can totally understand that there are players out there, maybe you, who don't like the fact that the game revolves around a strong economy. It's ok. There are other games. D3 revolves around simplistic and intensive action, I don't like that, I don't play it.
And to answer your question, maybe Etup would not be 100 now. Why should I care ? He would be 100 in 1 month or 2, and it doesn't impact me at all.

"

So, they design very punitive endgame, but encouraged way of playing their game is to use cheats of trade to avoid this punitiveness. Completely lack of logic.

If you consider that trading is cheating, you should quit this game right here right now. PoE is an economic game, it's in its very core design.

I have some minor feedback about higher maps (79 to 82 though I haven't personally ran any 82s yet). I like that these are very exclusive and impossible to maintain but there is one problem that I see with them. Sacrifice fragments are pretty much mandatory in order to run them just because if you do happen to get a payout the maps are worth so much. As such there are times when you have no fragments and are forced to hang on to them until you can get so fragments. This inst so bad in itself but mapping 79+ is so expensive that more often then not the currency you make in the map wont nearly cover the cost since I feel like you have to zana mod anything 80+. I got into a spot where I can only sustain the currency I already had but couldn't make any more. For this reason I couldn't buy sac frag from other player and had to farm them myself which meant even though my character was 94 I had to farm docks for frags.

Personally I think that frag farming is already a pretty unfun part of the game but I glad it exists. I'm not convinced that fragments buff map drop rate though is a good feature because I think it end up being a mandatory like old pack size. I think It would be worth considering changing frags to increasing map rarity rather than quantity and then buffing all maps globally to have about 2 frags worth of quantity(could also start at 1 and work up to 3 at high maps or vise versa).

The other issue which is minor are rare maps and how they work with chisels. Currently if a high level rare map drop you always half to scour then chisel and alch. I'm not sure that this adds anything to the system and it make rare maps dropping frustrating. on the flip side if a very low level map drop rare and it has a mod you don't think you can run its not worth the scouring/chaos that you have to spend to run it. have heard story's of confused new player having a rare map drop and then using a full stack of chisels to quality it. This is a pretty small minority but its worth noting that it does happen. I think that either maps should always drop white or rare maps should get 5 quality per chisel. These are minor changes but I think both encourage players to map without creating power creep.

I ended up quitting warbands for irl related reasons and gave away all my useful stuff so you wont find evidence of high maps on my account.

"

Dawmz wrote:

If you consider that trading is cheating, you should quit this game right here right now. PoE is an economic game, it's in its very core design.

Monopoly is an "economic" game, it's in its very core design.

ARPG, game about progressing in imagined world through slashing monsters, can't be "economic" in it's core, it's just artificial addition catering to small derivative of D2 BN bubble, which doesn't fit genre at all. At least for me.

But let it be, let them cater to some minorities, until it doesn't prevent me to play this game as I want, it means, mostly solo, mostly self found.

And that's why I despise map changes, as those gate me content I could play behind trading. I have nothing against playing harder maps, but with 2.0 changes I just not will be able to fund my mapping with what I loot on maps.

@pwnz

"

If you consider that trading is cheating, you should quit this game right here right now. PoE is an economic game, it's in its very core design.

For a game so heavily focused on trading not having a decent trading system for the last 3 years...

Again, opinion. Yeah PoE doesn't have a fully automated AH. I personnally think it's better like that. Could trading be improved ? Certainly. Will it be improved ? Probably.
Still, there are everyday probably hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of transactions happening between PoE players so yeah, it's a very trade/economy centric game. Compared to that, you can't even trade anything between players in D3. Doesn't mean that PoE is right and D3 wrong or vice versa, different games aim for different goals and different design. Choose what you prefer. I'd never suggest to Blizzard to introduce a complex economy in their game, why should I ?

GREAT NEWS!!! (although I had faith they would change things, I havent even run 75+ in torment for this reason), if they smoothen out drops in the 75-78/79 range I think things could be finally reaching the desirable sweet spot. The game has many cool maps and they should be tried! Ty GGG ;) (I have recently been recommending the game and the only negative thing I had to say was the map drops, maybe this will soon be a thing of the past!)