Map drops - assessment of 2.0.0, and changes coming in 2.0.2

Okay so few days ago i saved up enough lvl 68 dungeon maps so i can create at least 1 lvl 75 map spent a ton of currency to get it over 100% quantity and hoping to get at least same base map to drop from boss(lvl75) but to my surprise no map at all, Not even from the boss.

I know the game is based on RNG that is all well in good when it comes to Gear fine it will take me longer to get stats/unique that i would need for my build to reach full potential,But when you spend so much currency to just hope to get a White map at least of the same level and get nothing. That right there is where it just irradiates the hell out of me.

If i could make a suggestion Have the Boss Drop Maps period either with same level or 2 higher you want us to kill bosses then make it worth while not have up go through the map kill the boss and then go oh well you were not so lucky with RNG this time good luck next week when you saved up a ton more maps to upgrade to another 75+ map again.

I think if you did this you would most likely see less people leaving the game and would keep them playing longer which i would think would be one of your goals.

And if you are going to have it where boss drops maps 2 levels below current map at least have it drop 3 maps even if they are different maps from one another at lest then you won't feel so shit out of luck.

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build up a base of maps

I have never understood this when I see it. Does purposely running lower maps over and over somehow give you an account side RNG flag? How is running maps as you get them different than slowly saving them up as far as getting drops goes?

I guess if you are super concerned about XP penalty efficiency it might help a bit but other than that I don't get it.

A lot of people are in my opinion too focused on the whole boss and +2 maps issue, but map drops are a question of rng+averages, so consider the following: If you run 30 Q100 lvl (example 75s) would you prefer as a result (obviously really simplifying a ballpark number which in itself should make you think just how mathematically hard it must be to 'balance' map drops, and give GGG a bit more slack and patience)

1) 15 75s, 7 76s, 1 77s (better base rate, worse boss rate)

or

2) 10 75s, 3 76s, 2 77s. (worse base rate, slightly better boss rate)


The first one is a result of a higher BASE drop rate, and thats the real issue here. Over a large sample of 'equally' rolled maps, drops need to be ON AVERAGE good enough to sustain up to a certain point, but cut off wherever considered necessary (ie the very top maps to make them sufficiently rare).
We know that 2.0 base drop rate is lower than the previous 1.3 live rate, they have always been upfront about this and from feedback etc its clear that (especially) the 74-78 brackets need a 'slight' buff and they seem (again) willing to address this. So its just an issue of giving them some time and space :)

As for Zana maybe a small buff would be appropriate for those that make the considerable effort to level her to level 8. Ie make her feel worth it (but without being op). She's underwelming now and such dedicated players deserve to have their effort rewarded!

Can we now get a buff to Zana? Getting 72 maps from a lvl 7 Zana is pretty ridiculous... In my opinion, Zana is one of the best things that was implemented in this game. She is the reason my guildmates would log on at night so that we can run our Zanas together. Now, no one runs together because all we do is complete the mission and leave the map.
Please, GGG, give Zana some love.

see the thing with zana, look at what we are actually saying here, we dont want zana to be op. Having zana, after i have leveled her to 8, give me a 10 minute daily mission of game time suitable for my characters per day would be op? Think about that...

this is a game, are we not supposed to be playing the game? Oh no, zana is letting people play the game for 10 minutes, this is completely unacceptable! this is how warped the whole situation has become with this absurd mentality GGG have. Could they be any more ridiculous? Honestly? The right to have that 10 minutes appropriate game time should only come from lottery win type rng, if we just let people have that 10 minutes per day the whole game is ruined! What if they find another 10 minutes of proper game time inside that 10 minutes? Where would it end? Players might get really lucky and be able to play for hours. God forbid right?

Seriously tho guys? Is this seriously what its come to? Every other game company in the world is desperate for players to play their game and GGG release a free to play game, invite the world then set about finding ways to stop them playing their game.


Have I fallen through some wormhole into crazy land here or something? am I the one crazy guy in this dimension that thinks this is absolutely mental?

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Qarl wrote:

(we assume until they improve their character).

lol what ?

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Qarl wrote:

Many players have expressed concerns that they hit a wall around level 74 or level 75 [...] This is partially due to level 74 being where the harder mods kick in. The harder mods can be discouraging.

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gh0un wrote:

Partially wrong.
I would do these harder mods all day long if you would give me the currency to roll them.
The discouraging factor is the currency cost, not the difficulty [...]

I fully agree with this player.


The cost of running this game is insane :
- ~5Ex gone in a week spending Chis/Alch/Chaos to run 75-77 maps
- 2460 Fuses lost to RNG (now at ~4000 consecutive fusing without a 6L !)
Now, I don't have enough currency to continue playing.
Back to farming Vaal with my 88/311 MF... ? You know, this is soooooo fun.... (/sarcasm)
This, is what is discouraging.


Why would you willingly introduce things that will discourage your customers ???
- many impossible Map mods for 99% of the builds
- no Return on Investment on 150+%q maps
- lowered Zana
- high-end crafting killed by removing the already almost un-existing Eternal
- more low-tier in equipment mods (lowering the chance of getting something really good)
- worst possible trading
- ...

Make the game hard but ATTRACTIVE.
(unless you want to try Path of Bankrupcy...)
I don't understand you (the team), in 25 years of gaming, this is the first time I feel pushed out of a game.


To end on a positive stance, thank you for the Manifesto, we want more of this.
A Podcast would even be better, I feel a huge gap between many players and the dev team, I think this needs some serious round table discussion.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Have I fallen through some wormhole into crazy land here or something?

Actually yes. GGG is re-discovering what they already discovered at the end of Open Beta / early release, where they decided to remove the stupid "maze" mod and rebalance drops.

The simple truth is: people want to just play the fvkin game.

Now with 2.0 GGG tried to backpedal and make mapping again an obnoxious economy-driven currency-sink RNG-fest, which backfired and they'll have to re-discover what they already knew at the end of OB. So it's kinda wormholey, yes.

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ATTRACTIVE.

That's the word i was looking for in previous post.
Actually lack cruely of that.

Soo in conclusion what most here seems to want as changes is listed below:

- Rewarding hard map rolls
- Increased map drops at all levels map ( if hard map rolls )
- No more or really less low level map drop in high level maps
- Harder endgame but also more attractive
- Eventualy some map +1 on exile and slightly increased chance on the " 20% chance to drop +2 on bosses "
- Be able to roll easier our maps as Iskiv said above that's right spending so many currencies on maps for 1% xp is discouraging. Eventualy think about solo play too.


I know i'm going to piss off some of you here but i will repeat it ... can we have community poll sometimes ? That might help to avoid problems like this before any release.

Game even HC shouldn't be a permanent frustration. The attractive part should be " Hey guys let's roll an hard map wich will give us lot of fun trought hard bosses / mobs etc ... and we will get rewarded this way and then enjoying the game wich is a hobbie after work "

Instead of the actual: " Hey guys i quit for a while has been running 2000+ maps from 74 to 81 for not even 150/200 map drops in this map range".

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Asday wrote:

High end content, like Lightning Coils, Mjolners, Uber Atziri, and high level maps, should belong to the rich and the lucky.

I disagree with this change.

to the rich and good players, getting shit luck and getting 0 maps above 76 from 8x79 with 130+quant is bullshit no ways around it.