Map Changes in 2.0.4

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haensel wrote:

How do I sort unique maps already in my stash after your improvement of awesomeness? With future drops, you were clever enough to figure out a method, but what with the old ones?

what method?

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Chris wrote:

Map Symbol Colours
Previously, most maps had a yellow symbol. We've changed this colour to indicate whether maps are low-, medium- or high-tier. These groups specifically line up with the set of mods available to be rolled on the maps. For example, if the map has a red symbol, then the top mods are available. This also makes it easier to spot the relative tiers of maps in your stash.

Right now mods don't have "tiers" or level requirement to be able to be rolled on maps.

Care to explain what mods are available for what tier?

As you put it if you decide for example that anarchic is a top tier mod I won't be able to roll it on a tier 1 map.

i agree that this just makes the map system more confusing. i kindof understand the reasoning behind it, but now we have to check poe wiki for the level of the map (not everyone has memorised all the levels).
we need to know the level of the zone for xp/loot purposes!

it would be a little better if we could see have the monster level when you hold alt, like item level on gear.

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Chris wrote:

As they're in 2.0.4, these changes will apply to Standard/Hardcore and also the one-month events. We will get a solid set of data from these events, which we'll then be able to use to fine-tune the map system for subsequent events and challenge leagues.

Unless we have different drop rates for different leagues, playing standard is really going to suck if you continue to balance maps based on the desired scarcity in leagues that have bonuses.

At level 94+, it's quite boring and extremely unrewarding to be stuck playing mid-tier maps. I've just run six tier-11 maps (chisel 20, 8% zana bonus, rolled to iiq+packsize 100+), fully cleared including all breakables: near 0 return. Only a handful of maps dropped and they're all under tier-11. And I got just a single map from all the boss kills (a tier-7 I believe).

I'm not even playing the high tier (red) maps, and I can't even sustain upper yellows? As an almost exclusively standard player, my feedback is that PoE feels too unrewarding to bother playing anymore.

Make that SEVEN T11 maps with near 0 return. Exactly 0 maps in my last one (a Springs, which I chiseled and rolled to 90% quantity, 15% pack size, 40 rarity, and ambush modded). It had 5 strongboxes (all rolled to +3 magic packs minimum, some chaosed into magic packs and extra, such as guarded by a stream of monsters). It had 2 tormented spirits, and I got 1 spirit (poisoner) into the boss. It also had a haku zone, which I fully cleared as well. All breakables, chests, boulders, cairn stones, remaining 0. Not a single map back? No equal or better tier maps seven times in a row, for mid (yellow) tier farming? Continuing to play under these conditions is a complete waste of time and currency.

Edit: up to 9 T11 maps without equal or better return.
Just yolo'd an un-id rare academy (beyond and shocking ground from what I could identify), remaining 0, 0 maps dropped. Before that was another Springs, which I got a T2 and a T3 from.

Throwing in the towel. Going to load up a new game on steam.

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Vhlad wrote:

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Chris wrote:

As they're in 2.0.4, these changes will apply to Standard/Hardcore and also the one-month events. We will get a solid set of data from these events, which we'll then be able to use to fine-tune the map system for subsequent events and challenge leagues.

Unless we have different drop rates for different leagues, playing standard is really going to suck if you continue to balance maps based on the desired scarcity in leagues that have bonuses.

At level 94+, it's quite boring and extremely unrewarding to be stuck playing mid-tier maps. I've just run six tier-11 maps (chisel 20, 8% zana bonus, rolled to iiq+packsize 100+), fully cleared including all breakables: near 0 return. Only a handful of maps dropped and they're all under tier-11. And I got just a single map from all the boss kills (a tier-7 I believe).

I'm not even playing the high tier (red) maps, and I can't even sustain upper yellows? As an almost exclusively standard player, my feedback is that PoE feels too unrewarding to bother playing anymore.

As I'm in the temp leagues I'm only now reaching 74+ so I can't give my own feedback yet, but it seems to me that GGG completely underestimated how much rares+exiles etc giving +2 maps helped sustain map pools. Now we kinda rely on magic mobs giving +1 maps, and if they don't a map pool can disappear if you have a run of 'bad' luck. Anyway, lets give it some more time and see, but I do think (especially) in the mid-tier maps if you are chiseling+alcing all maps you shouldnt have a problem sustaining them as this is already a reasonable investment. Breaking into the 79+ maps should be difficult, but without enough 76-78s its difficult.

Also, its sad when instead of looking forward to the loot we're looking forward to map drops. I think this philosophy is the main downside of rng gating maps, locking out content shouldnt be a strategy except at the absolute upper end. Nerfing upper end experience returns is only an appropriate response if the players have access to that content and can enjoy it.

hi !, well back with a feed back regarding map changes and so caled ' map have been hugely buffed ' mith , sustaining maps from lvl 79 ( Tier 12 ) still suks...many chiseled bufed high iq maps still gives off jack sheet .
New map changes dont impress me at all !!

Fact of the matter is, gameplay fun is now RNG gated.

Chiselling is not an option anymore, it is mandatory.
Sacrifice Fragments are not an option anymore, they are mandatory.
Zana mods are not an option anymore, they are mandatory.

Rolling maps for high level (79+) is profoundly boring.
a) Make them normal quality if they are not already.
b) Fully chisel them
c) Alch them
d) Chaos them until they have high quality, packsize and ideally magic monsters
e) Ambush them
f) Roll all strongboxes for 3 magic packs. All other mods can be ignored.

It is like, choice has been removed from the high-level mapping. Buff map drops to the point where 79s become sustainable (without spending 20c per map, which are impossible to generate on standard economy), and the player has the option to choose what kind of maps to run. If you have a map base 3 levels below the max level, you can make decisions on how to run your maps. If you have a map base that is boring faceroll content 7 levels away from max level, and 79s are incredibly rare, you have to roll your 79s just in any way you can to optimize map drops.

And yes, I do not look for anything else than maps any more. The only thing I worry about is map drops (and maybe not dying). It is a distinctly mediocre experience.

I wonder how many GGG employees actually play standard economy, like, a lot, without being rich in-game. I can tell you, it is a VERY painful experience, and makes me want to quit this game.

The map system could be so beautiful. But it is fucked up beyond belief by stupid RNG/currency gating. I still have only one lvl 80+ map drop from maps. One. Since 2.0, and I have a lvl 91 and a lvl 93 on standard.

after playing some weeks, i conclude that the drop of mid tiers maps increase after the patch(75 76 and a bit 77) but is still very hard to sustain maps over those levels because are hard to obtain without rngesus. i play some maps over 78 and without a iiq over 120 never got a map of the same level or +1 (+2 drop from boss really sucks, 1/25 got one). in adittion, some maps playing over 140 iiq and got only 1 or 2 maps and often maps of lower level.

i hope a bit increase of maps over 77 in a future but is a start these patch, is a bit less frustating that before, and a better reward from zana lvl8 , takes too much times for level and only open a lvl 74 laboratory that hardly drop a map over 74 or 75 with nerf in iiq.

regards

pd: tiers system sucks and fail with legacy maps
pd1: sorry for my bad english i'm argentinian

When you initially introduced the "tier" idea I wrote it off as a change that would have no real impact. But, now that I've played with it, I've determined that there is an impact, and it is negative.

I'm so ingrained in the map "level" system that I have to translate tier and level for each map I find or run. Calling them tiers instead of levels is just a needless complication. You claimed that the purpose was to not confuse people about which maps they should be playing at which level, but the monster level is still plainly listed in each map. What's the difference?

Can we switch back to the old system please.