[3.5] Say_Ten's Melee Shadow - Murder Everything Cheaply

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jonapaloma wrote:

Is it possible to use lightning strike with some other support skills?

It seems that multistrike is the only support gem right now?

I use it with CoH and Assassin's Mark and it does a fuckton of damage with just multistrike, even without the curse (on hexproof enemies). If you were going to try something different and ditch assassin's mark, I've used Crit Chance and Crit Multi before and that is strong. I would keep multistrike though since you can spam it at low mana cost and if you have life/mana on hit claws you will keep your balls happy, if you know what i mean

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zonda02 wrote:

Hey I saw that almost all melee builds runs kaom's roots which give stun immune temp chains immune etc, do you think it is worth using them ? And for chest something like 6l rare/belly/lc and use those 4 gems u lost from Boots into helm - abysses or rats nest or rare?

for this build i don't and here's why:

we are already strapped for resists by using the BoR. throw another unique item in there and you're really pushing yourself to find GG rare items to fill the gaps. that's not cheap.

once you get over 5000 life, you will get stunned a lot less and the Heart of Oak node helps too. plus even though they nerfed the fuck out of block, this build still has a decent block chance.

Kaom's Roots don't have movement speed on them, which kinda sucks. Even though whirling blades is fast as hell, it is really nice to have high movement speed.

Not being slowed below base speed is decent...more of a quality of life with mapping thing though. the high amount of base life is really nice.

In summary with regard to Kaom's Roots, you could try it in the endgame and see if the 150-200 base life outweighs the drop in resists. I'm guessing it won't but I'd like to hear how it goes if you do. If you're going to drop anything, drop the CwDT setup.

Check FAQ for discussion on 6L armor and helm combo but the bottom line is that you gain more defense but lose offense if you use rare items. also 6L armor is expensive.

I've been checking this build out for the last couple of days and i'm gonna try it on my next char.
I have 2 Questions:
Have you considered using "the Scourge" Claws? Seems like they might work pretty well with your build. Or am i overlooking something?
Have you reached Endgame in Harbinger league yet? If yes, how is the build doing against Guardians, Shaper and Uber-Atziri in 3.0?

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Say_Ten wrote:

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zonda02 wrote:

Hey I saw that almost all melee builds runs kaom's roots which give stun immune temp chains immune etc, do you think it is worth using them ? And for chest something like 6l rare/belly/lc and use those 4 gems u lost from Boots into helm - abysses or rats nest or rare?

for this build i don't and here's why:

we are already strapped for resists by using the BoR. throw another unique item in there and you're really pushing yourself to find GG rare items to fill the gaps. that's not cheap.

once you get over 5000 life, you will get stunned a lot less and the Heart of Oak node helps too. plus even though they nerfed the fuck out of block, this build still has a decent block chance.

Kaom's Roots don't have movement speed on them, which kinda sucks. Even though whirling blades is fast as hell, it is really nice to have high movement speed.

Not being slowed below base speed is decent...more of a quality of life with mapping thing though. the high amount of base life is really nice.

In summary with regard to Kaom's Roots, you could try it in the endgame and see if the 150-200 base life outweighs the drop in resists. I'm guessing it won't but I'd like to hear how it goes if you do. If you're going to drop anything, drop the CwDT setup.

Check FAQ for discussion on 6L armor and helm combo but the bottom line is that you gain more defense but lose offense if you use rare items. also 6L armor is expensive.

Well I've meant what if we use kaom's+some 6l armour(belly lc whatever)+4l helm (abysses or rats nest or rare) will this be better than bor+rare boots in terms of surviveability and damage? (Not counting that it is going to cost a lot for sure, let's say we have those items!)

Been playing this build for the Harbinger league and oh man is it fun to play when you're mapping, have been having some issues though with higher tier maps, haven't been able to get past doing tier 9 maps.

I sometimes dip into tier 10's and the occasional 11's but it's too sketchy for me to be able to do them without almost dying every time, do you maybe have some suggestions for what I could do to be able to do higher tier maps more comfortably?

Have about 100c in stockpile at the moment so currency hasn't really been a problem luckily, just not sure on what upgrades would be best for this build, seem to of hit a dead end where the next substantial upgrade that i can find is 200-300c.

Thanks

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Gamml0r wrote:

I've been checking this build out for the last couple of days and i'm gonna try it on my next char.
I have 2 Questions:
Have you considered using "the Scourge" Claws? Seems like they might work pretty well with your build. Or am i overlooking something?
Have you reached Endgame in Harbinger league yet? If yes, how is the build doing against Guardians, Shaper and Uber-Atziri in 3.0?

1) haven't considered using the Scourge. pdps is decent but the base crit chance isn't anything above a normal claw. plus it's a leech claw so if you're not using vaal pact, i wouldn't recommend it. not sure how effective that wolf minion is but this build kills shit so fast i'm guessing it won't matter, except maybe in tough boss fights with adds. i haven't looked too much but there isn't really much within reach as far as minion damage on the passive tree, so you're left with jewels, but at least those go up to 16% so jewels might be cheaper (triple melee skill damage/attack speed gem + minion damage would be RIP normally). i think the key would be whether or not there are other unique items you can find with minion damage stats on them. even with two of these claws, i'm not sure the 140% increased damage will outweigh two rare claws with a base crit chance of 7% or higher. they are cheap enough that you could try it. and one last nitpicky thing about these claws. you only get that buff if you've hit recently, but some of the assassin bonuses apply to enemies on full life only, so it would be possible that you would not get to apply the 140% increased damage with the assassin bonus on an enemy (boss?) because you haven't hit recently.

2) no, still leveling and tweaking gear. resists aren't fully capped yet but at least i'm around 5200 life. missed the first week of playing and i'm kind of casual so i'm only 87 right now. been using the new ruthless support and it seems quite useful. might swap it for another support later just to confirm that i want to continue using ruthless.

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zonda02 wrote:

Well I've meant what if we use kaom's+some 6l armour(belly lc whatever)+4l helm (abysses or rats nest or rare) will this be better than bor+rare boots in terms of surviveability and damage? (Not counting that it is going to cost a lot for sure, let's say we have those items!)

i don't think so but it's just different and you could surely try.

if you do that then you are left with gloves, belt and jewelry (and god forbid weapons) to get resists and you might need tri-resist on everything (which means no spots for INT, crit chance or crit multi on jewelry and no attack speed on gloves).

if you had awesome gear, you could easily overcap your resists and maybe with abyssus you could make up for lost DPS on gloves and jewelry, but then you have lost a lot of life from BoR (assuming you use it with LC).

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Verox_ wrote:

Been playing this build for the Harbinger league and oh man is it fun to play when you're mapping, have been having some issues though with higher tier maps, haven't been able to get past doing tier 9 maps.

I sometimes dip into tier 10's and the occasional 11's but it's too sketchy for me to be able to do them without almost dying every time, do you maybe have some suggestions for what I could do to be able to do higher tier maps more comfortably?

Have about 100c in stockpile at the moment so currency hasn't really been a problem luckily, just not sure on what upgrades would be best for this build, seem to of hit a dead end where the next substantial upgrade that i can find is 200-300c.

Thanks

boots and amulet are a little low on life but they are both good items so...

take more life nodes on the tree temporarily

or, more importantly

what is causing you to die? are you keeping fortify up? are you doing enough damage? Weapons seem good, less not having a higher base crit chance.

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Say_Ten wrote:

boots and amulet are a little low on life but they are both good items so...

take more life nodes on the tree temporarily

or, more importantly

what is causing you to die? are you keeping fortify up? are you doing enough damage? Weapons seem good, less not having a higher base crit chance.

Sitting at around 5.3k life so I've been keeping an eye out on that obviously, was sitting at 4,100 the other day before I spent a good ~40c just getting extra life on jewels and most pieces of armour

I'm not entirely sure if it's actually something I could buy to improve being able to do tier 11+ maps or if it's just my poor play sometimes, just feels like I melt to packs now and again when I shouldn't be.

Been looking at better claws, like you said they are pretty good but the 6 base crit chance is pretty bad, and I don't really have the ~200c quite yet to fork out on a single better claw, do you think that a higher base crit chance is better than 300+ pDPS?

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Verox_ wrote:

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Say_Ten wrote:

boots and amulet are a little low on life but they are both good items so...

take more life nodes on the tree temporarily

or, more importantly

what is causing you to die? are you keeping fortify up? are you doing enough damage? Weapons seem good, less not having a higher base crit chance.

Sitting at around 5.3k life so I've been keeping an eye out on that obviously, was sitting at 4,100 the other day before I spent a good ~40c just getting extra life on jewels and most pieces of armour

I'm not entirely sure if it's actually something I could buy to improve being able to do tier 11+ maps or if it's just my poor play sometimes, just feels like I melt to packs now and again when I shouldn't be.

Been looking at better claws, like you said they are pretty good but the 6 base crit chance is pretty bad, and I don't really have the ~200c quite yet to fork out on a single better claw, do you think that a higher base crit chance is better than 300+ pDPS?

You could probably test that out with cheap unique ones, or find me in game and i'll help you and/or put your weapons on for 6.66 seconds.

I suspect, based on the above, you need to manage your play style better. In maps all the way up to T-whatever-the-fuck, everything trash gets annihilated. You might come across a random heavy-hitter that surprises you, or something with high armor that takes you too long to kill, keeping you place for longer...but generally bosses are the only threat. I mean, yesterday I ran the uber lab three times and tanked 2H mace Uber Izaro fully buffed.