WOLCEN - Lords of Mayhem

A one-off payment game doesn't need gimmicks like leagues. I don't doubt they'll have some form of updates but I for one hope they have a much more stable metagame than PoE ever has or will. In that regard, I expect Wolcen to be much closer to Grim Dawn than to PoE or D3. The comparison to PoE should start and end with much more stable elements like flexibility of character and itemisation. I'll say it again: Wolcen and PoE are very different beasts. Even at this early stage, Wolcen gets a lot more right than PoE did at its same relative phase of development. But PoE was always going to be free to play, aggressively driven by support packs, player trading and a volatile metagame a la MTG. Wolcen will likely be none of these. Although their level of ambition right now doesn't fit the $20 price tag. I do wonder if they'll try for an episodic approach and charge a small amount for each act or something, bringing the total cost to play over time much closer to a realistic figure. $20 for a complete arpg is unrealistic -- Crate only got away with it with Grim Dawn because they recycled so much of their work from Titan Quest. Even then their first expansion was almost 20 bucks again. And Wolcen is already appearing to aim higher than vanilla GD in terms of polish and scope.

Also, the 'worthless shit' would probably be apocalyptic forms, which are something unique to Wolcen and should, if done right, add a lot of variety to a game where everyone is essentially the same class (sound familiar)? People are right to be at least curious about these dramatic deviations in character.

You've started to really make a habit of saying dumb judgmental shit about games you haven't given a fair chance, Perq. Tsk.

I don't quite agree with that.

Leagues/seasons/ladders are the lifeblood of these types of games, if it turns out to be a gearing based ARPG of the good old hack n slash varient like the great arpg's of past and present. Sure there is a part of the population that doesn't care, but there is a far greater part that loves to come back to reset economy and "start all over" together with everyone else.

You might be right in that they won't go that direction, i haven't actually investigated that as i just took it for granted that they would. Else they will have made the choice to become a second grade ARPG simply by that decision as either they are forgetting it or the whole game is constructed for a completely different audience.

Ha, I was wondering what you were responding to. Now I see.

Keep in mind, VM, Torchlight 2 wasn't exactly a success and saw the beginning of the end for poor old Runic. I do think in the absence of regular 'resets' and gimmicks, a game like Wolcen will need something else to remain more than a one-off $20 purchase. I wouldn't hold it against them if they did a fairly small but complete 'core' game and then regularly released mini-expansions to keep the cash flowing. It's just the nature of the beast now that games have to keep making money after release. One way or another.

First Impression:

I like it.

And I don´t consider Wolcen a typical fastpaced H&S like TL, TQ or D2/3 - it rather reminds me of Dungeon Siege or Sacred.

Unfortunatly it´s still very, very alpha. Three hard resets after crashes today made me decide to wait for better times. At least I had some fun watching my friends computer crash and freeze at exactly same moments as mine did. Turning graphics to "high" f.e. is a sin instantly condemned.

But the team seams to be a bunch of nice, engaged guys and I wish them the best of luck. Don´t consider yourself "buying a game" but "paying to support" and everything will be fine.

I got it myself recently (now that I think about it, seems like I'm REALLY into arpgs...) and it's a lot of fun. The skill tree and resource system in particular were what caught my attention.
Even though there's still a lot to improve or fix (randomly getting stuck or the character reset to 1 due to a bug), I enjoy it quite a lot. I'm REALLY looking forward to the final product... if my computer can actually handle it at that point.

The game is going to get gradually less demanding on hardware, not more. The game currently uses way too much CPU resources, and that's going to improve. It'll choke out a 4 core/4 thread I5 processor. A lot of people are reporting high temps on potato CPUs with stock cooling. That's because the game is basically stressing their CPU like they're running Prime 95. People's PCs/Laptops are crashing or powering down due to temps.

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Querne wrote:

And I don´t consider Wolcen a typical fastpaced H&S like TL, TQ or D2/3 - it rather reminds me of Dungeon Siege or Sacred.

I find that a fairly strange distinction you've drawn there. The only game in that list I'd considered fast-paced in its early stages is D3, which is an action game first and foremost. All the others are from a different era and have pretty much the same pace for the majority of the game. If anything I'd place Wolcen much closer to D3 in its current pace than TQ or Sacred. There are some surprisingly frantic moments in early Wolcen, especially when facing a low level red enemy, that don't really exist in the first act of TQ, D2 or TL.

At a larger remove, if you're talking about world exploration, I'd put Wolcen closest to Sacred 1/2, which were much more open from the get-go than the pseudo-dungeon layouts of D2 or TQ, or the blatant dungeon layout of TL1.

I didn't play that much Dungeon Siege to accurately place it on the scale, but as I recall it was also more open world than railroady. On the other hand, Dungeon Siege was also party-based tactical play which I always found...quirky in an ARPG and much closer to shit like Neverwinter Nights than Diablo. Somehow it still got classified as an ARPG though. Also just as mystifying, the most 'ARPGish' Dungeon Siege was the dead-set average Dungeon Siege III by Obsidian/Squeenix, which dropped the party aspect for a single character and focused more on the action.

Just to return to leagues/ladders "real quick".

Myself and a huuuge portion of players think the absolute best time to play is when a new one has just started. It is literally a big reason to come back.

Maybe it is because we play nonstop until we are satisfied - and that can only really be satisfying in the end if we don't have to farm for 1year+ to get there. It flows perfectly in 3-4 months of time per league then nearly everyone can get to experience the full extent of their builds, try out some things, and soon a new fresh start approaches.

For someone like us, league starts are THE place to be, it's far more funny when everyone are coming from nothing at the same time. Your efforts show far more then, and it just feels great. Also when you come into a new game for example it sucks more when everyone are like 1-2 months or even more ahead of you in the grind. It is always most fun to start with everyone else.

Games like wow also adhere to these principles, it is actually what the level increase in expansions and to a lesser extent the big patches do with their increases in itemlevel. They even the field, and everything just grows stale after everyone has been on top for long enough. Then comes the reset/start from scratch and everyone flows back in.

It is very much the lifeblood of these games for the typical power gamer. Without it it's all bland. Titan quest for example, i never played it but you said it did not have ladders? Well it also attracted a different type of player, i reckon more a player that just wanna do whatever they want at their own pace and not really care too much. It never was one of the big competitive games, it was more for those who just enjoyed it in their own way. Which is why it is second grade game. Don't get me wrong, for some people this type of game is all they want, but the most people and money to fund game development continued lies in catching the powergamers and the trickle-down effect they bring with them. And these gamers love fresh starts to go at it full power and compare themselves to everyone else. This type of game can also house the other type of gamer, but the other type of game cannot house these type of players which is why this type of game is a first grade game, all-embracing rather than limited.

k.

Anyway, back on topic: I still see no mention of that strange bug I encountered in the latest build where certain powerful monsters could hit you so hard you'd respawn back in town despite not dying. Very weird bug. Maybe it was hotfixed quietly. I'll get on and check to see if it's still happening later.

Has anyone mucked about with guns yet? I've heard they look pretty cartoony, quite like the pistols in Torchlight 1. Not necessarily a bad thing but maybe not really the best look for Wolcen. I do like the 'combo' animations I've seen so far. Gunkata is fun.