How We Approach Console Development

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Black_Gun wrote:

so, say you're in the dev meeting and one guy proposes a cool mechanic for the act 6 bossfight that would be really cool on the pc, but could never work on the console due to control restrictions - in this hypothetical situation, does

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"The development and direction of the PC version has not and will not change due to the existence of the console version"

mean that you will nonetheless bring the cool boss mechanic to the pc version, even if it doubles the required effort and production cost of this bossfight? do you really want us to believe that you would't just dismiss the cool idea in that situation and try to look for another mechanic that works for both pc and console?

Could you give an example of such a mechanic? I've heard this sort of thing raised once or twice, (I don't recall who mentioned it the other time, might've even been you again.) but I can't really think of anything that might apply.

I mean heck, they've got first-person shooters and third-person RPGs on consoles; I'm pretty sure there won't be anything Path of Exile can't do there.

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Suzim wrote:

i don't believe my support pack money was spend on a console version when the main game still have bugs/crash everywhere and don't have anything near a trade system...
sorry, but i can't support this game anymore.

Actually your supporter pack was spent on eight and a quarter hours of wages for janitorial staff and one catered lunch.
Oh! I almost forgot, they also had to replace a busted mouse; your support also counted twelve percent and a bit for that.


Give it a few months, maybe see how the next league goes and then see how things look.
Right now you people are being unreasonably pessimistic.

Too much drama, naturally I wish to see GGG succeed only for the benefit of the game. I don't have strong feelings about the move, perhaps some worries. It would help if GGG would be more open about the current revenue streams. I did like the act5 spoilers I saw.

I can emphasize with people that are unhappy about the investment. I also supported this game into existence on closed beta, yet there are those even committed since alpha pixel days.

The paying part of the community, pays for the PC version of the game, they like to see sound investments that improve into what they support. For supporters even casual supporters, the amount of money invested into this game is far larger than your average gamee. What is the amount though when you sum it up and divide it by all players?

Personally I don't even see the need for free to play. More than 50% of the trade interactions is with a no mtx almost empty hideout character (rmt suspicions) (I only buy don;t sell). 95% of my "fun" social interaction is with players that supported the game. Removing the free to play crowd, that could reduce infrastructure costs is in terms of PoE just a small balance patch. I can see the merits of f2p, but as far as my interaction goes I don't see the benefits myself.

The dedicated crowd is what is running PoE financially (and the amazing dev team, despite mystery boxes). The dedicated crowd already took in the Garena mud, that could not support itself, we took in the negative revenue crowd (perhaps more positive on the balance now that the infrastructure is shared) and as a gift they brought with them the red pixel monstrosity and alternative art items.

Benefits, supporters like to see benefits on their investments and people just found out they supported the console version of this game. With no guarantee they get something back from it. Remember how the PC crowd supported their own game into existence? It is not a model that works well for consoles, especially considering the more casual and younger consumer base. So we take that risk, or do we?

Will there be benefits for the PC supporters?

First lets get 1 misconception out of the way, and this might be a very important one!!
The PC supporters only partially are responsible for bringing the game into existence. The original development team took loans and invested their own money to start the game. Is the current revenue stable enough to get the performance improvements we want? Only performance improvements without added content does not do well to retain players.

It might very well be that loans have been taken that predict a ROI based on the console port. In that case we already benefited, but the community now also shares even a bigger risk when the console port does not become a success. Still this is all speculation. We would greatly benefit if GGG could tell us how the revenue streams are for the game, what the risks are. Does the console version need to be a succes within a 6 month time period? Which includes launch and one big expansion, basically thus supporting its own development cycle? In that time though, it would also need to earn back part of its original investment.

I'm not to positive about the xbox platform, due to the gamer type. Playstation would be a more sensible platform, it has a very strong RPG culture (albeit japanese), something that I feel is less prevalent on the xbox. The added exposure of launch could however also bolster attention to the PC part of the game. I know a few people switched to D3 PC from console. Perhaps working with xbox/ microsoft also has other benefits, not yet talked about by GGG.

For the love of gods, can we get controller support for PC as well?

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HegemonyTV wrote:

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Pathological wrote:

You say you don't want to jump down a rabbit hole, but you're already looking at it in the rear view mirror. PoE's major draws are difficulty and depth of mechanics. The former is a moving target, the latter is getting watered down more and more as time goes on. You say console and pc will be developed separately, but that simply isn't the case. You aren't going to completely alter mechanics to function entirely differently from one version to the other, and you aren't going to spend time developing new mechanics that don't function well on the console version, which means that the game will have a glass ceiling in this area.

Unless the two games are literally divergent from each other, with different design teams and completely separate skills and back-end mechanics, console is already affecting PC as we speak, because there are choices that you need to make that you cannot make with a console version in the wings. Its existence snuffs out all hope of certain changes being made that many were hopeful would eventually come.

Can only hope to be wrong, but history from other game(s) show us the reality.

this is the exact reality that i see.

it's just not avoidable.

of course they could implement exciting stuff for the pc version only to prove us wrong.

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Ozgwald wrote:

Perhaps working with xbox/ microsoft also has other benefits, not yet talked about by GGG.

that is surely a very important point.

Hello GGG,

Most of the community said NO, listen to them. Don't go to XBOX

"The fear that development resources would be spent on a version of the game that didn't directly benefit that player". - yes, you could have hired a team to fix the Balance and the Performance Issues, not to spend on an XBOX team. You are wasting the community capital.

"The fear that the PC version would be modified to become more similar to the new console version." - The idea is that every new decision will have to correspond with the dumb XBOX port and how it would interact with that realm.

The community have spoken, don't ignore them since they can also do the same and it will cost you a lot.

I do hope you read the comments and see the reality in the situations without any pink glasses.

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bootdisk wrote:

Most of the community said NO, listen to them. Don't go to XBOX

yep, they'll totally listen to couple dozens forum people after spending ~2 years on that project

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silumit wrote:

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bootdisk wrote:

Most of the community said NO, listen to them. Don't go to XBOX

yep, they'll totally listen to couple dozens forum people after spending ~2 years on that project

Well it would be better to cut their losses now than later.

I still can't believe how many resources they have wasted since 2014 on a deadborn console port.
They could have made so many improvements to the game. Today is a sad day for the POE community :(

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bootdisk wrote:

Hello GGG,

Most of the community said NO, listen to them. Don't go to XBOX

"The fear that development resources would be spent on a version of the game that didn't directly benefit that player". - yes, you could have hired a team to fix the Balance and the Performance Issues, not to spend on an XBOX team. You are wasting the community capital.

"The fear that the PC version would be modified to become more similar to the new console version." - The idea is that every new decision will have to correspond with the dumb XBOX port and how it would interact with that realm.

The community have spoken, don't ignore them since they can also do the same and it will cost you a lot.

I do hope you read the comments and see the reality in the situations without any pink glasses.

You are assuming only our resources have been used for this? What of the "support/ purchases" is a margin for GGG to exists as a company and make their own investments? In the past they took money from investors, advertisers and took loans, what part of that plays a role now? Are they only entitled to one game title; PoE, on one platform; PC? There are a lot more angles that need answering before people jump to conclusions.

Supported packs and relative highly priced mtx-es really do bring the issue of entitlement with them. You are and I also are entitled. It is the situation created by what I feel is a long standing mismanagement of how PoE generates income. When it comes to supporting and the mtx store, things are far from optimal. Changes to this system would have caused a lot less backlash to the xbox announcement. Almost all money (apart from lose mtx points) after all is spend on supporter packs. With supporter packs you assume: "I am supporting the PC development."

Also the drama over the port, you do know microsoft and xbox is moving forward to only 1 platform? Such that there is almost no difference between pc and consoles as a platform (apart from having a controller and such). The drama over ports that might be justified 4 years ago, plays a completely different role today and might look very bright tomorrow.

more PoE for more ppl should be good. except it's for fucking casuals who will shit up the game with their tiny brains and cocks!!!!!! grrrrrr im mad

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Ozgwald wrote:

You are assuming only our resources have been used for this? What of the "support" is a margin for GGG to exists as a company and make their own investments? They took money form investors, advertisers and loans in the past, what part of that plays a role now? Are they only entitled to one game title; PoE, on one platform; PC? There are a lot more angles that need answering before people need to jump to conclusions.

Supported packs, relative highly priced mtx-es really do bring the issue of entitlement with them. You are and I also are entitled as that is the situation created by what I feel is a long standing of mismanagement when it comes to supporting and the mtx store. Changes to this system would have caused a lot less backlash to the xbox announcement. Almost all money (apart from lose points) after all is spend on supporter packs, where you do assume: "I am supporting the PC development."

Also the drama over the port, you do know microsoft and xbox is moving forward to only 1 platform? Such that there is almost no difference between pc and consoles as a platform (apart from having a controller and such). The drama over ports that might be justified 4 years ago, plays a completely different role today and might look very bright tomorrow.

1. Don't get me wrong, but this game is dependent on the community in the long run (more than the usual game). A new game will be a good, healthy thing for GGG, but not a POE port to XBOX .

2. Regarding MS "1 platform" - you have heard before of Windows Phone and the "1 platform" thing there, right? Well... not quite bright I assure you, as a current Window Phone user I can tell you that One OS is still an elusive term in the definitely uncertain future.