Damage Over Time Changes - Part 1

so i did some math and my min-maxed disfavour bleed build that i made, which has about 2mil bleed dps (vs white mob, 600k vs shaper) and about 300k hit dps (i used vulnerability, lion's roar, melee on full life and all that just to get maximum physical damage part)


after these changes the build will have 270k bleed damage (vs white mob and 140k vs shaper) and 300k regular dps.

It seems like the only way after these changes is to go full elemental conversion since you can get way higher TOOLTIP that way + getting elemental penetration is so easy nowadays

rip damage over time and build diversity

As a semi-professional gameplay programmer, this solution seems to me... unnecessarily complicated.

What I would have done:

1. As you collect the modifiers that apply to the initial Hit, build a list of those that could possibly apply to DoT (i.e. Fire Damage and Area Damage may or may not apply, but Attack Damage definitely cannot).
2. If the Hit causes a DoT, pass this list to the calculation that applies modifiers to the DoT.
3. The DoT calculation is not allowed to apply any modifier that exists in the list.


In short, if a modifier was used to scale the initial Hit, it cannot scale the DoT as well. But modifiers that could have scaled the initial Hit but didn't, can still scale the DoT. E.g. "Fire Damage" cannot scale the Ignite from a Fireball (because it already scaled the initial Hit), but it can scale the Ignite from Ice Spear if wearing Hrimburn.

But what do I know about PoE's internals, eh?

"

suszterpatt wrote:

As a semi-professional gameplay programmer, this solution seems to me... unnecessarily complicated.

What I would have done:

1. As you collect the modifiers that apply to the initial Hit, build a list of those that could possibly apply to DoT (i.e. Fire Damage and Area Damage may or may not apply, but Attack Damage definitely cannot).
2. If the Hit causes a DoT, pass this list to the calculation that applies modifiers to the DoT.
3. The DoT calculation is not allowed to apply any modifier that exists in the list.


In short, if a modifier was used to scale the initial Hit, it cannot scale the DoT as well. But modifiers that could have scaled the initial Hit but didn't, can still scale the DoT. E.g. "Fire Damage" cannot scale the Ignite from a Fireball (because it already scaled the initial Hit), but it can scale the Ignite from Ice Spear if wearing Hrimburn.

But what do I know about PoE's internals, eh?

agree to this.

and please no more technichals like the life leech calculation waterloo, for understanding this i have to study the game. no fun!

"

Proximi wrote:

so i did some math and my min-maxed disfavour bleed build that i made, which has about 2mil bleed dps (vs white mob, 600k vs shaper) and about 300k hit dps (i used vulnerability, lion's roar, melee on full life and all that just to get maximum physical damage part)


after these changes the build will have 270k bleed damage (vs white mob and 140k vs shaper) and 300k regular dps.

It seems like the only way after these changes is to go full elemental conversion since you can get way higher TOOLTIP that way + getting elemental penetration is so easy nowadays

rip damage over time and build diversity

Yeah, build diversity was sooooooo good with everyone running double dip poison and ignite builds.
Build diversity means exactly that, not "oh but I use Vortex to ignite so it's a different build".

It's all the same and only because double dipping was massively OP, has been for ages. Good riddance I say. Looking forward to 3.0.

So does this mean we're going to see the removal of poison, bleed, and ignite immunity?

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

very reasonable! it was what we thought and its fine. lets hope the lackluster Aoe of many skills will be adjusted at well

"

Craeburn wrote:

anyone who types thanks or awesome in this thread obviously eats turds for dinner

i found the dotter

"

suszterpatt wrote:

As a semi-professional gameplay programmer, this solution seems to me... unnecessarily complicated.

What I would have done:

1. As you collect the modifiers that apply to the initial Hit, build a list of those that could possibly apply to DoT (i.e. Fire Damage and Area Damage may or may not apply, but Attack Damage definitely cannot).
2. If the Hit causes a DoT, pass this list to the calculation that applies modifiers to the DoT.
3. The DoT calculation is not allowed to apply any modifier that exists in the list.


In short, if a modifier was used to scale the initial Hit, it cannot scale the DoT as well. But modifiers that could have scaled the initial Hit but didn't, can still scale the DoT. E.g. "Fire Damage" cannot scale the Ignite from a Fireball (because it already scaled the initial Hit), but it can scale the Ignite from Ice Spear if wearing Hrimburn.

But what do I know about PoE's internals, eh?

That's no less complex than what they are doing. Your way requires comparisons of applicable terms, while theirs does not. They require only the base damage, the game intrinsically knows which multipliers to apply based on the damage type.

Pretty much all this change means is that instead of parsing 20% of the multiplied base damage, they are parsing 40% of the non-multiplied base damage.


~100 fire damage, ~20 added fire damage, 40% more spell, 35% more fire, 30% more elemental, 100% increased fire, 50% increased spell, 20% inc duration

Current system:

120*1.2*1.4*1.35*1.3*2.5 = 884.52 damage per cast
884.52*0.2*1.35*1.3*2*1.2 = 4470.7 ignite dps

New system

120 base fire damage
120*1.2*1.4*1.35*1.3*2.5 = 884.52 damage per cast
120*0.4*1.35*1.3*2 = 168.5 dps ignite

Your proposal:

120*1.2*1.4*1.35*1.3*2.5 = 884.52 damage per cast
884.52*0.2*1.2 = 212.3 dps dot


The above numbers make the change seem more extreme than it already is - the change is a massive nerf, but it required a massive nerf to reach any semblance of balance. Double dipping was far more broken than most people know.