Damage Over Time Changes - Part 2

Good thing assassin is a crit based ascendancy with lots of crit multiplier and poison.
oh wait
gg delete all assassins?!

So basically, in order to scale [ailment DoT], you'll need:-

a) A large non-crit hit (pretty insignificant)
b) A crit with ailment multiplier
c) DoT, Burning, Poison

Any other sources will not scale the [ailment DoT] unless a specific mod is stated or introduced.

Meanwhile, DoT secondary effect such as Vortex, Burning Ground, Caustic Arrow can be scaled with AoE damage.

"

Don_Mateo wrote:

tengo un dolor de cabeza

Yo tambien...:(

This just seems overly complex for no particular reason. Curious to see how the new system pans out, but I really think people will opt for direct damage over dots if they are forced to alter their entire build around one or the other (specially so for melee). So many survival mechanics are tied to having strong direct damage (e.g leech).

"

chockdoo wrote:

If they are adding affixes they should throw affixes that noone ever wants out of the game.
Mana gained on kill, +2 life on hit etc comes to mind for example....

Making the gamemechanics easier to understand would be great, "increased damage" for example - will it only affect the "hit" or will it affect also poison(guessing it won´t, which is what makes it confusing).

example on a hit that poisons for 8% of hitdmg:
100dmg hit
"100% increased damage"

hitdmg 100 x 2 = 200dmg
poison 200 x (0.08 x 2) = 32dmg poison

OR

hitdmg 100 x 2 = 200dmg

poison 200 x 0.08 = 16dmg poison

which one is it ?

Whether multiplier applies to dot will depend on the type of multiplier.
As for the math, my bet it looks like that (with assumption that multiplier applies to dot as well):
Hit Base: 100
Dot Base: Hit Base * 0.08
Generic multi: 100%
Hit Total: Hit Base * (1 + Generic multi/100)
Dot Total: Dot Base * (1 + Generic multi/100)

As you can see it won't really matter how big is your actual hit is, if you don't have multipliers that also applies to dot. It technically solves double dipping by having linear growth instead of non-linear, but it still is kind of double dipping since you're still incentivized to take "true" generic multipliers.

Not a good change as it is a double nerf for poison and bleed. Also ingite to some extent, but at least elemental and fire damage will still scale both the hit and the ignite.



Essentially it is a double nerf. Say you have increased:

Physical damage 100%

Attack damage 100%

Aoe damage 100%

Projectile damage 100%

More area damage 50%

Old system

A 100 dam phys hit would do:

100*(5.0) *(1.5)= 750 hit damage. Poison would do 750* 0.08= 60 base *(4.0) *(1.5)= 360 double dipped poison damage

60 poison damage would be a fine change

New system

Damage =750. Poison = 100*0.08 *1.00 =8 *2 for new system =16.0 *note that none of the damage above, even attack damage scales poison anymore on top of not double dipping anymore


After the X2 multiplier to 'compensate' for double dipping, the poison does only 16 damage. Under the old system if poison simply weren't scaled again it would do 60 (double dipped it does 360).


You can see here that the poison damage is less not just because it doesn't double dip anymore, but because it also is scaled much less. Naturally the poison damage in the first case will increase far more than the new case with several hundred% added damage applying to the attack. None of it will apply to the poison in the new system. On top of that, critical hits don't scale poison or bleed at all anymore where they didn't double dip before (if I am correct). This is an unneeded nerf as well.

When I first tried this game, I got excited about the chaos damage idea and wanted to make a chaos witch build my main focus; improve and perfect it solo (I do not trade) taking my time in standard.

Soon I realized that, despite the ubiquity of chaos damage, there were very few actual pure chaos spells; in fact, essence drain seemed to be practically the only pure chaos spell. I did not like the projectile idea, but shrugged and went with it; built my chaos witch slowly over time, learning the mechanics, synergies and so on. After almost a year(?) of playing casually, I got to a point where I have a six link essence drain totaling 22k dot dps on self found crafted gear. Not too good, not too bad; I can do some high tier maps, I am happy. I keep trying to improve. Or at least kept.

The changes outlined in the thread are a clear death sentence for essence drain. There is no way to compensate for four '+more damage' supports and empower, no matter how much you buff the damage of the skill. Essence drain was never overpowered without poison dipping and decay weapons; it was merely a viable skill in synergy with contagion, IF you linked enough projectile supports. I simply see no way to compensate for this loss of synergy. Rest in peace essence drain, my build, and my poe time.

I just have one question: suppose someone, like me, wants to make a witch that uses a chaos spell (not with chaos conversion, an actual chaos spell) and go to high tier maps with minimal trading. What skill should they pick?

Should I be asking 'what game should they pick' instead?

"

SisterBlister wrote:

Jeez, do we now need a degree in sophistry to play POE? Can't you rather make things easier to understand, rather than harder? With all the exceptions and convoluted wording, I bet there will be quite a few waaay overpowered combinations you've overlooked and many more noob trap skills+supports which don't work intuitively.
Really, if it needs pages of explanations, it's going to be buggy. Like tax law, for example.

annd that's what makes this type of game fun... there always has to be some new overpowered build to find or improve, or it gets old.

I just hope the next op thing, or replacement for double dipping, is as satisfying to play.

I do agree most of the poison burning meta builds need to be nerfed, but this might do it too much and get us another spark situation, just straight up kill the skill/build.

The biggest thing that concerns me is ignite will no longer consider area, ok prolif has only 12/16 radius to begin with, in 2.6 area change, the total area got a minor hit, now it won't even get the little bit of area increased? that's pretty much done for burning prolif I will say.

And sure give more damage to burn to compensate sound good, but different skill have different tags, some skill might have 4 tag, some have 2, is not possible to balance these two skill after nerf, so here in our hands the situation is most skill will not be used with dot build anymore, just one or two for each dot type, and we are back to 2.0, when poison simply do not exist except poison arrow.

I don't agree GGG's change the mechanic all around approach, but not quite against it either, it's better nerf certain meta builds to the ground than not doing anything, like spark, they can be buffed later with more testing.

This is bad.

What we need is SIMPLE rules that are EASY to understand even for beginners.
We dont need to consult a 5000+ pages modifier laws manual when making a build.

Skip all theese complicated rules lets make Fire dame igites always and do double dip sometimes.
Same with all other things.
Large physical do bleed, always.
If there is chaos damage inwolved, it should poison, every time always.

Plz make it EASY not complicating things even more, it will not get better.

Now, everyone will play builds where you missed to forsee the dubble dipping effects and when you patch it we will move on to the next thing you missed.
And one cant make a new completly selfmade build without spending 100+ hours in that 5000+ pages modifier laws manual.

Simple = good.

I hope 3.0 will be real fun tough.