Trade Manifesto
" thread is old, but this (specially the part about making money in-game) deserve an answer. 1-This isn't a mobile game. Trading while being off-line would not bother me however. Still, using mobile players as a reference, given that they are perceived most likely akin to slot machine addicts (with variable degrees of truth) doesn't help your point. 2-In short, this is a game, not a workplace. If someone need money he's better trying to get employed. What you suggest would make poe pay to win, aka skills doesn't matter as long as you have cash. Beside the fact that all non-mobile games who tried to implement real-cash economies (with few exceptions) utterly failed to do so. No animosity toward you dud, companies are at fault here. They managed to shift the perception of what a videogame should be, so now peoples can't even tell if a game represent a fair experience or a glorified casino anymore. Last edited by etkratos#2715 on Nov 29, 2018, 5:22:11 PM
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you should make like china trade instant BUY
because many people always down prices and high price if its instant price it will make price item 100% knowable please make AH or china version |
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I can't say I agree with you on all fronts.
All the stated reasons you wrote are the reason why most people don't play standard. Because its simply pointless for new players to even try to compete there. Also the need for 3rd party software for trading is just.. stupid. I get you wanna make it hard. But if for some reason I can't get my trade macro up as I couldn't for past years (until I finally got a new computer still not sure what the problem was) I felt seriously fucking gimped. What others are doing automatically I have to do manually. Imagine a new player trying to even grasp the need to alt tab to trade. My question is why these features aren't game bound so we are all on the same trading grounds? Trade chat is pathetic lets face it, its terrible. I don't know anyone who enjoys using it and I have been playing since 2013. I get you DONT WANT TO MAKE AN AH, I am alright with that. But why can't there be like an ingame Marketboard or Market Master that opens a windows thats like /trade or poe.trade item filter options to search for all the available listings from the sites.. from the game? Is that really such a hard feature to implement? I hate using 3rd party software to do a basic game function. Your "Most PoE players never traded." statement is also... what? And you are ok with that as developers? The most important function of item and drop management and most people in your game don't do it because of how hard and tiresome the system to actually trade is? Also your argument is invalid. "People who trade better so they can finish endgame content better". Seriously? I play leagues only since 2013. I have been in almost every PoE league and I know players that play them only TO TRADE. I remember once my guild leader accumulated over 12 mirrors and god knows how many thousands of exalted in Ascendancy... but he never passed level 47 on his character. He bascially ran at least 1/4-5th of the high end trend...profiting massively without ever doing the content himself. The system you created is like capitalism on steroids... i am not saying its bad, I am just saying why not make it fair for everyone then? This up is a lone example but I know couple of those... Trading is more profitable way to play the game then actually playing the game. Thats why people hoarded stuff in standard and now hold monopoly on prices that make it nearly impossible for new players to even acquire enough to get semi decent gear let alone BIS gear on standard. Standard should be renamed into Legacy server and you should open up a Standard 2.0 for all the new players that came. Your design philosophy only serves the original playerbase and ammasses their wealth while it makes the bottom of the food chain pay for it. I simply don't understand why you can't implement a Marketboard ingame? Trademacro is imba and should be considered cheating, not be endorsed by you if thats your design philosophy. If you wanna make trading harder as it seems in your manifesto, WHY IS IT ALLOWED TO USE PROGRAMS THAT EASE IT UP? Unless the ingame system is fundamentally broken but you just want to justify it pointlessly instead of fixing it with a simple fucking Marketboard? Its an object in every city (or make one special trade hub city for it) and can also be acquired for player Ho's. Click on it, it opens up a tab to search for items with all filter options like on trade sites. You search up your items.. INGAME... NO BUYOUT BUTTON... but ingame whisper button to the player. ALSO.. ONLY SHOWS ONLINE OR REMOVES ALL LISTINGS 1 MONTH OLD... Your system has a terrible consequence as all the listings stay permanentely on the trades because rarely do people unlist stuff from their stashes. Unless searching online only or in new league, standard trade is broken. People overpricing EVERYTHING to the point I don't even wanna trade. Shitty 20chaos rings for 10ex minimum. Why? Because if you search Online only you will get only active players listing. If you go show all results you will see 1000 of listings from god knows when some years in back listed for couple of chaos... same stats and all. Why? Why? Either allow us to buy that out or remove those listings it makes me feel retarded when I see how jacked up the prices are simply because the top of the food chain needs to remain there by setting high prices and everyone else tries to get most for their buck so they price stuff up too much. Its terrible. Trading is a fundamental backbone of your game and you sistematicaly made it worse by overthinking stuff and allowed insane advantages to people who know and can use all the 3rd party software to ease their trade while anyone less informed or simply unable due to his own technical or pc restrictions is basically fucked. This is a terrible design philosophy and maybe held water when your game was played by couple thousands players in the beta. You got an insane influx of new players that will quit the game sooner or later because the main function of the game is "reserved for trading elite". I don't wanna waste my time trading. I wanna play the fucking game. 95% of your playerbase is like that..other 5% is trade oriented. PoE surely has over millions of players now, CURRENT TRADE SYSTEM IS UNACCEPTABLE ANYMORE. It drives me, your hardcore oldschool player away from the game every now and then, you think a scammed newbie will feel greater about it? Trading is so fucked up in this game, I remember back in the day when I started playing..its unforgiving. I had my first ETERNAL ORB drop at lvl 42 on my first character. I went to the chat to ask what it is... immidiately I got offers.. i ended up trading it for a shitty white 5 link two hander sword because I thought I needed it. I didn't even know (Think there wasn't even poe trade back then) that if I could even price check it anywhere. I feel scammed for that eternal to this day. And if you think thats a lone instance of trade sharks abusing naive, needy and new players you are not playing your game. There should be an easy and accessible way to see all site listings within the game so you can check out what the top and bottom price is as a player and decide do you wanna undersell or wait with your listing. I shouldn't rely on 3rd party software to check that out or do it manually because I refuse to use the trademacro while anyone who does profits immensley from the time saved by not doing the comparisons and searches themselves. And to tell me SSF is the answer. It is not. I wanna trade. I just don't wanna trade through nightmare experience you guys consider "required training". Your design philosophy for trade is TERRIBLE. Its nonsensical, illogical and it seems you are just beating around the bush with your arguments to perpetuate the status quo from which no one, again except the top fish, benefits from. A simple Marketboard that performs all the functions of trade sites and trademacro would literally solve all trade problems. If it only lists online players especially since you will be forced to make your decision on spot and leave it like that or truly commit into observing the market for those type of listings if you wanna influence it. I know you wanna make it hard... but making a backbone of PoE experience only available to those willing to piece together information from 3 programs and places ALT TABBED OUTSIDE OF PATH OF EXILE GAME to tab back in to trade... is counterintuitive and just pointless. I don't care how you envisioned the system. The game has grown over your expectations in all other parts and most of those changed accordingly. The laziness to make an effective trade system and then explain it with bullshit explanations that explain nothing but just show why trade sucks in the state its currently in. Trade system needs quality of life and ease of use improvements because as of now... 3rd party software does more work then your game for it. Around 99% of work as everything but a final trade is done... OUTSIDE OF PATH OF EXILE. Who the fuck sees that and thinks "yea this is a great system?" lets make it perpetually harder for players to trade to the point they don't even want to anymore"... great philosophy GGG. Fucking great. Pull your head out of your ass, cut the bullshit and finally remake the trading system.It is obsolete and useless as it is. Your new players cant use a basic game feature without alt tabbing without even knowing the old players use macros to ease the whole process up... think about this... if your system was good... it wouldn't need A MACRO PROGRAM TO MAKE IT easier to use. You need to take all options from those sites and programs and introduce them ingame through a window available in the fucking game. Sorry for my wordings but I am a bit pissed as fuck after reading your manifesto. It explains exactly why the trade system is shit in this game. Stop overthinking everything, cuz of it you created the most tedious and unrewarding trade system in any game ever. Congratulations. I am even amazed you created pathofexile.com/trade. For years your trade system depended on a 3rd party website. What the fuck? Seriously. You don't see any problems with this? Not one problem? And then you create your own... instead of implementing the feature ingame as it is no changes... just give us access from within the fucking game are we asking for too much? Your design philosophy does not count anymore, the playerbase finds it obsolete thats why it made its own tools to bypass the tedious aspects of it... that you implemented.. on purpose? Seriously... why? reading your manifesto for the 3rd time now... still don't understand why. You sound like politicians full of shit trying to explain to people how hard there decisions are to make while there is really no consequence for you. Its the player who eats shit because of your decisions and he is the last to profit from it. Only ones profiting from your decisions are players that are playing since the beggining since they actually had the time to keep up with all the changes. To anyone new its a flaming shitstorm of one giant what the fuck. And don't tell me otherwise... I spent over 5 years on your game and talked to shitloads of people in it and 99% of us agree trade system needs change. Only reason we tolerate is because there is no other alternative on the market for a good arpg so we can overlook that one flaw. You could make this game literally PERFECT... if you just fucking implemented trade windows ingame and cut the trading alt tabing and hotkey bullshits out of the game. Either that or BAN THE FUCKING TRADE MACRO and make it an even playground.. not allowing some people to bypass the tedious and UNNECESSARY ASPECTS OF your shitty designed trade system if it was meant for us all. I'm out. If you disregard or remove this comment just because I am a bit angry about one of the games I am most passionate I was about in my life I am literally done with you. Yes the game is insane. Best one yet. And yet misplaced personal ideologies of people behind it hold it from reaching true next level of game design. tl;dr I WANT AN ANSWER. WHY MAKE A TRADE SYSTEM SO ENCUMBERING, TIRESOME AND TEDIOUS ONLY TO ALLOW PROGRAMS AND WORKAROUNDS AROUND MAKING IT EASIER TO THE PLAYERBASE USING IT, CREATING AN INBOUND INEQUALITY BETWEEN THE PLAYERBASE??? Either ban the trade macro or bring both trade macro and poe.trade and poe/trade to an ingame window so we are all on the same page. This is just lazy, pointless and borderline illogical. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you do not answer my question I will consider you do not have an answer and will have to conclude you are limiting yourself from fixing the greatest problem of your game because you simply wont admit you are wrong. |
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AS far as bots go you could always make a captcha type system before it allows you to accept.
Something a bot can't do. Entering a captcha to buy an item is infinitely less better than whispering 90 people for an item only to give up. |
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" LOL did you even read their explanation? Not saying they couldn't improve trade but your argument is based on trade being a system that only benefits the top players, when clearly, according to data they have (and you don't), most people don't bother trading anyways. As for item prices - there's literally nothing preventing players from overpricing items even in a AH/Marketplace format. There's also nothing about those systems that would prevent price-fixing from a determined group of people. If anything, it would allow rich players to scoop up low-price items even more quickly/easily and pricefix them. This is in-line with their philosophy that making trade too easy/automatic would only exasperate the wealth inequality (see: any free market). The third party tools available to trade are literally so easy to use. You'll get a response when you're trying to buy an item 99% of the time as long as you don't whisper the cheapest one listed. Buy your 4c item for 5c and you'll almost always get it. Your post is such an overreaction it's hilarious. |
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You could also think of a trade reputation system where people could vote up or down after first contact, and let the other traders know if its a Price fixer/bot/macro (should have bad reputation) or an active seller (should have good reputation). just making the trade out of the classic text chat to another with :) or :(. If you consider the ítems as important as you say, you should put this kind of features like the selling websites have (amaz and eb for example). pleople Will buy from the ones that have good Rank and Sellers Will try to commit to their situation.
Or maybe (im just brainstorming), a NPC in hideout with the premium stash tabs for selling where someone could TP and buy without waiting for the owner to come and filling a CAPTCHA for example, something like 2+2. With that, you clean the market from bots and also have the chance of leting people that want to communicate and negotiate, to wait for the owner and trade. Edit: added things Last edited by hernanlafu12#6547 on Dec 3, 2018, 6:54:33 PM
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" wake up, its soon 2019. as there are bots for tedious game mechanics, rmt services for players who want to spend money to be better, there are as well captcha services where people sitting and solving one captcha after another for almost no money, which has apis that can be used by bots. And ofc we are in the age of neural nets and deep learning, so if you would really care as the bot developer you can even solve it. This would just be helpful for a few days and after that only another tedious mechanic punishing the players. Its something like DRM protection on software, where the legit buyers having to suffer performance issues and sometimes the cracks are still available on release day. It just makes no sense. Also considering that not everyone solves captchas with ease, may it be bad eyes or just the ability for the recognition etc Dont punish the masses for actions of individuals, just because you cannot identify them. If they want to fight of bots, they have to work on identifying them, this is the only way. |
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" EXACTLY. "MOST PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TRADING ANYWAYS" VS. "The third party tools available to trade are literally so easy to use." Hmmm I wonder why? BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES THE IDEA OF HAVING TO DO SHITLOAD OF SHIT JUST TO PREFORM WHAT SHOULD BE AN INBOUND SIMPLE GAME MECHANIC. Yea I overreacted. So? Wish more people fucking did it would change something this passive beating around the bush pretending like you know what you are talking about shit needs to go. You literally dug yourself a hole. No one wants to use 3rd party programs and find it inconvenient to do so. Thats why the trading in this game is dead, useless and downright terrible. Making trading too easy would differentiate the wealth gap? Ok. Then its time for serious changes. Turn Standard into Legacy server (still playable) and make a Standard 2.0. Implement Marketplace. 90% of players would go to standard 2.0 because standard as it is now is totally unplayable for vast majority of playerbase except new people who just trying out the game without knowing the backstory behind it. Pricefixing as it is is only possible because people on standard have stacks of 100 mirrors and over 20k ex easily allowing them to do market manipulation. Make a new standard and that wouldn't be a problem for years to come. Trading system is pure shit and their philosophy is not helping it. Because all their other changes still allow old players to ammas the wealth compared to a new player who doesn't even want to use the trade cuz its so complex. Also whats this about cross platform differences in trading? Chinese have 1 type of trade, PS4 other and PC we get what we have? How the fuck is having 3 trade systems across 3 different platforms for the SAME FUCKING GAME making anything easier? Gheez. This is pointless. They will never fix it because their head is too far up their ass obviously. Again; just gonna leave this here and let anyone else contemplate on whats been said: "MOST PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TRADING ANYWAYS" VS. "The third party tools available to trade are literally so easy to use." I guess I am too retarded to understand the subtle complexities of GGG's reasoning even tho I have been playing there game for almost 5 years now and have no ingame experience of why most of their systems are broken. Great fucking logic, I can see why this game is turning into more pile of shit with every consequtive patch. They only addding content to mask out the existing and underlying problems that plague the game since its been released due to their overthinking and stupid rational excuses for making concrete changes that would actually have some sense. If their system was good to begin with.. would the community ever make 3rd party software and sites to ease it up? To the point where THEY EVEN COPIED THE WEBSITE into their own... LOL... seriously? Thats your grand game design philosophy? Make a trading system so shitty people REFUSE to use it until the community steps up and makes poe.trade to ease it up... so.. what can we do? I know... lets copy poe.trade and implement it into poe.com/trade. Brilliant. We solved all our game problems with this one. Seriously. Fuck all you people trying to make problems appear more significant then they are. Bu hu hu making trading easier would create a bigger wealth inequality... by comparing it to world free market? Poe has nothing on free market of the world and all similarities stop there. Does it have a comission that sets tax precentages on goods so it stops people from pricefixing? Does it have internal services and court to settle trade disputes? If you get screwed over in trade in poe.. you are fucked. On your own. You know how many new players get fucked over in trade and realize it an hour later? Shitloads. And then they wonder why their data shows no one trading? THIS IS A FUCKING GAME. That managed to create a trade system more confusing and un-equal then fucking capitalism. Their stupid game design philosophy made the players wealth gap. STOP MAKING LEGACY ITEMS that provide the inequality gap. No one profits from those except old players. Bullshit legacy kaoms heart is like couple of mirrors like whaaaat? WHY? I remember when we traded it for couple of ex... what makes it 5 mirrors now? Nothing except people that have it want most out of it. Its just bullshit over and over again. And yea not everyone has English as their native language so they can express their opinion s it should be.. I am not even overreacting I am FUCKING ANGRY because now I finally see the reasoning behind the trade in this game and it perfectly explains why trade is steaming pile of shit since its been released. Because they just wanna seem smart and by overthinking a simple thing in game they managed to make almost 90% of the playerbase not even engage into it. Meh I am done. This is not worth my nerves and time. Fuck this trading system. You hear me Chris? Change your reasoning and change this shit, it literally benefits no one. Except you, since you can say "we got this game design philosophy which we aint changing for nothing" even tho you changed it in other aspects of the game. Its just pointless to the point he had to make a Trade manifesto to justify and defend his reasoning because it is so flawed and doesnt make any sense. But thats just me, I am obviously too stupid to understand simple logic even tho they accussed me of cheating at IQ test because my result was statistically impossible. You all smart here as fuck, I wonder what a dumb fuck like me even doing here to be honest. Fuck this shit. |
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" if i didnt have to buy stash tab all the time i wuld probably buy coesmetic instead i think a good trade system would make they userbase grow and the idea of a decaying prices and then autosell is a great idea it auto balance the market avoid flooding of item create demand make the enconomy stay healthly. |
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Seriously RonRave, WHY THE WHOLE QUOTE! Why not edit it! It's not that difficult!
" I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've got probably 1-2 hours per day and 3 evenings a week to play. I'm not going to spend time portalling back to my hideout to do a trade. So that's why I don't sell items. I've given up on buying for the most part as you don't get a reply anyway. And if you've tried a few sellers for a certain item it's again taking way too much time! So yes, the current trade favours players that are online a lot, have already gone through all content and have time to trade. As far as misusing the easy trade - set limits on the number of trades per hour/day/week/whatever. Set a maximum on how many of certain items you can have (so they at least have to create multiple accounts to stash things away). Make an option to report people that misuse the trade system and just delete their accounts if proven. If there's a reasonable chance to lose their wealth (and MTX) it may become a lot less attractive to scam. But hey, I highly doubt that anybody from GGG is actually reading this. No more money from me to GGG until they improve trade!
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