Trade Manifesto

its worst state that ever was trade... so many afk/price fixers/trolls! no1 respond at all! many bots! more other trash...
GGG pls start work on imporovement and QOL for trade pls pls!

I'd already be happy if 99.9% of the drops weren't utterly useless garbage, and that's with loot filters enabled.

Quality over Quantity, please.

"

Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great

How are you this out of touch with your players? There is huge disparity.

You say trade is important but when everyone charges 20ex for a ring JUST BECAUSE it has +1 to a charge shows there is something wrong with your system. Why? Recombinators.

Crafting is abysmal and only accessible to those with tons of exalts to spare. I'm sorry but "prefixes/suffixes cannot be changed" should not be a 2ex craft.

TM should be fixed by making trades instant, none of this reject/accept.

I don't go into a shop, give storekeep what he asking for a product and him say "no thanks, 10p more please."

Sorry but these archaic ways have got to go.

"

TemjinGold wrote:

While I respect the time it took to write that load of crap in the OP, it is all flat out wrong. I'm sorry you guys have your heads so far up your behinds to realize it when you are wrong but you are driving players and revenue away with such stupid rationale.

Easy trade does NOT suddenly mean there is no iterative upgrade process. Whether someone iterates has a lot more to do with planning their character and let's not kid ourselves, NO ONE other than noobs who don't know what they are doing uses any items they pick up off the ground. No one. Stop telling yourself this fantasy over and over that people upgrade that way. It doesn't work.

Go ahead and massively lower drop rates in return for easy trade. Because no one is finding anything useful on the ground either way. The best items are made, not found, and reducing drop rates or increasing them will not do this.

It frustrates me to no end that this is at its core a great game. But because developers are so closed minded and unable to see when they are so clearly wrong, this game will not survive. It is fine now as there is no competition but the minute a good game of this type materializes the game will be dead, not over lack of quality but over stupid stubborness and pride.

+1

so... no one here does SSF huh? i been ssf since last league and it was the most fun i had for the time i played.

not having to worry about the price of your currency is pretty liberating.

also, slamming an exalt on some dumb pos item for it to pull t1 life/inc.max life with high max life roll is pretty good feeling

I love Path of Exile and appreciate where the development team is coming from and understand that where they are coming from is a place of good intentions.

With that being said, I completely disagree.

I don't like spending my time manually trading via auction house websites.

For all intents and purposes, even building the existing web-based system in game would be a step in the right direction.

This bothers me. "We believe that it is more fun to slowly and iteratively upgrade a character over time and to have a longer journey to gear a character up."

In my opinion, one of the main reasons Path of Exile is enjoyable to continue playing is the freedom you have as far as how you choose to enjoy the game. In that spirit, telling the community how we should have fun is kinda awkward.

On the topic of automation, this is already a problem. It's easier to use automation in a web browser than Path of Exile, so by sticking with the web-based auction house, it's actually easier to abuse.

Of course there would be in game auction house automation solutions. How is this any different than the existing automation solutions for leveling characters and gathering gear, that can then be sold on the open market using the web-based system? The only tangible difference I see here is that the use of in-game automation for a new function would provide the Path of Exile team with more interaction data with which to fight this problem.

I would much rather login to Path of Exile having currency waiting on me and items sold than to spend my precious in game time trying to trade. Or, trying to enjoy fighting monsters, but being repeatedly interrupted to return to my hideout to complete a transaction.

Additionally, it's really frustrating when you are trying to purchase something using the web-based system and you get no response in game. Or, you message other sellers because you've received no response, and then the original seller you contacted responds. More time wasted, more angst, more frustration for multiple parties. I don't think associating the word frustration to Path of Exile is a positive thing. Especially if I'm out leveling a new character and I get contacted for an item I have listed, I portal back to my hideout, and then the person doesn't show up, or is very slow, or is trying to scam me, it's not a good experience.

Even if the auction house functioned in a way such that your listings were only live when you were logged in, it would be better than the web-based system. Albeit, limitations like these generally only negatively impact the players that are following the rules since if you're using automation, you're going to be logged in.

There's really no leg to stand on that I can see in this stance after reading the manifesto. Additionally, while it may not make good business sense to build something that you may remove, this is done with league content on a regular basis, so even giving a true auction house a trial run shouldn't be the off the table.

There are already automation solutions being abused, people enjoy the game in different ways, and frustrating players to participate in the economy, which is thoroughly vouched for in the manifesto, doesn't compute for me.

I say all of this with good intentions and a positive opinion of Path of Exile. As the developers, this is shared in good intentions to, at least in my eyes, significantly improve the game.

"

Archetypical wrote:

"

TemjinGold wrote:

While I respect the time it took to write that load of crap in the OP, it is all flat out wrong. I'm sorry you guys have your heads so far up your behinds to realize it when you are wrong but you are driving players and revenue away with such stupid rationale.

Easy trade does NOT suddenly mean there is no iterative upgrade process. Whether someone iterates has a lot more to do with planning their character and let's not kid ourselves, NO ONE other than noobs who don't know what they are doing uses any items they pick up off the ground. No one. Stop telling yourself this fantasy over and over that people upgrade that way. It doesn't work.

Go ahead and massively lower drop rates in return for easy trade. Because no one is finding anything useful on the ground either way. The best items are made, not found, and reducing drop rates or increasing them will not do this.

It frustrates me to no end that this is at its core a great game. But because developers are so closed minded and unable to see when they are so clearly wrong, this game will not survive. It is fine now as there is no competition but the minute a good game of this type materializes the game will be dead, not over lack of quality but over stupid stubborness and pride.

+1

yup 100% +1

I hope GGG will never improve trade system listening those tradies which complains the whole time. It's NOT trade sim, it's ARPG.

I'm a random guy and probably this does not matter but I want to give ideas and have the hope that at least 1 guy from GGG will read this and filter out nonsense.

It's ok that you address the trade problem of your game, but the disparity thing that you say if you make trade easier have no sense when there is already a huge disparity in the current system. Please stop saying that.

What you need is a solution to the frustrating part of trading, which cannot be implemented without doing nothing about the heavily invested traders getting all the currency on the market, making crafting for these people more expensive will not do anything useful.

In the entire manifesto I don't see any reference to limit the number of trades over a specific period of time, if you had an auction house (easy solution to the frustrating thing) I think it would be easy to program a limit to the number of offers you can make to sell and the number of times you can buy something(I do not have a shitty clue about programming let's be clear). If you limit the number of tradings people can do you are effectively slowing down trading, but there is a problem that you already know, if you can't limit the quantity of bots you also can't limit the quantity of trades. Or can you? What about limiting the number of trades a character can do based on their level? This way you can filter out lvl 1 trading bots easily but this is not more than a bad patch to a huge problem, people can lvl bot accounts and then leave them doing their thing, so which should be the lvl limit to start trading? And the number of trades allowed? Maybe around acts 5 you can do 1 or 2 trades a day and double that on act 10 but I really have no clue and no statistics behind this to properly know a good value for this numbers. Also, should you limit the people by selling orders or by buying orders? I say limit selling orders, so high end game characters that want the best income have to think about what they sell and mid game characters can try to sell mid game things, maybe I'm not correct about this thing but you should also consider a way to have diversity of items on sale and not just the everyone wants the same item, totally separated from lowering probabilities of getting that super wanted item, that "solution" would be a bad patch that will come and bite you in the ass with discontent because nobody has the super wanted item.

Enough of random ideas, to be concise I think that your trading system needs to eliminate frustration (easy auction house) and keep control with a slowing factor, on high invested trading players, that depends entirely on you. But with extra emphasis on the frustration part because, like me, I'm sure a lot of people just quit playing a league or directly don't play a league because nobody fucking answers and it's stupid to keep trying.

PS: Did not read the 80 something pages of rage and simping on this thread and I will not try, just in case if someone already said things like I did.

PS2: Just figured out what are the price fixers(these are the most source of frustration), auction house would filter out this people, if they list something below value they will sell it even if they don't answer.

TOTALLY RIP @GGG.

the trade system for console was for me (and my friends) the only reason to play on console.

the most annoying thing on POE is the PC trading system and the TOXIC trading community.

im not a pro but allready played ~16 leagues. when not trying SSF which is for the majority of builds impossible. my playtime of waiting for an trade/response is between 80-90% instead of actually playing.

from 100 messages maybe 1-2 are replying, but when mapping during a map, and when im finish with the map or extra leave the map, the item is allready gone... that was the reason why we allmost stopped playing on pc, and not only me and my friends severall communities im in too.

poe is a greate game but the actuall trading mechanism on pc is the absolute worst of the game!
the console version make so many things way more uncomplicated. you can still search for items you want but never has to wait. either you sell/buy an item or not. no waiting nothing. just playing the game and trading is maybe 1% of your time in the end. please dont kill this, make it more easy for the PC please. thanks

edit: with the system on console you dont/cant have spammer or faker who try to reduce the marketprice. they allways have to pay there currency to make this trade and therefore there will be way lesser fake trades than we have on pc either. i only see pros for the console trade system and so many contras for the pc trade system ;(