Path of Exile: Incursion (Content Update 3.3.0) Patch Notes

rip elder ring

Lets finally hope that they have fixes the CI unplayable state.

Also - some love about IceStorm would be good, since it went crap with 3.x.

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z1754888 wrote:

You are both wrong. For instance mines don't have cooldown for most people who don't know. If you tried to use blink, mirror arrow endlessly you'd soon fall short since the mine support takes into consideration the main ability cooldown.

Are you sure that TRAPS takes the main ability's cool-down into consideration? Because I remember throwing Cold Snap with Trap Support before and was able to keep throwing traps of it with no Power Charges active. It just followed the normal Trap charge/stock system behavior.

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z1754888 wrote:

And further with less trap recharge to combat this or how the new functionality of multiple, cluster trap works we won't be able to maintain more than 3 blink/mirror clones at once (unless you have more duration even then not much difference) which is down from a maximum of 60-70. (although a decent build might sit more in the middle of that more does not always mean more damage.) Not only due to it's own cooldown is it hurt with regards to traps and the new changes but nerfs to trap cooldown. RIP mirror/blink.

Okay... I don't think you quite understand the changes to traps. I'll try to clarify:

1. Less trap recharge? Yeah, cool-down reduction for traps was nerfed because the only traps that have a cool-down now (Flamethrower, Lightning Spire, Seismic and Siphoning) are strong enough to warrant the cool-down. The other traps no longer have a cool-down, so there's less of a need for cool-down reduction.


2. Also, something you seemed to have missed, the traps that no longer have a cool-down (all except the 4 above, and maybe Bear Trap) NO LONGER USE THE CHARGE/STOCK SYSTEM. You no longer have a charge/stock of 3 for those traps, you can just throw and have as many traps as your limit, which got a HUGE buff as well. The limit before was 3, with another 3 from the tree, 3 from Multi and 5 from Cluster... so the max number of traps you could have out at a time was 14. Now, the DEFAULT limit is 15... letting you hit a max of 29 now. So unless you somehow get a metric-shit-ton of Trap Throwing Speed, outside of pre-throwing traps before a boss activates (doing Atziri fights), the only time you should hit that limit is if you suck at throwing traps at enemies.

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Tamoketh wrote:

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z1754888 wrote:

You are both wrong. For instance mines don't have cooldown for most people who don't know. If you tried to use blink, mirror arrow endlessly you'd soon fall short since the mine support takes into consideration the main ability cooldown.

Are you sure that TRAPS takes the main ability's cool-down into consideration? Because I remember throwing Cold Snap with Trap Support before and was able to keep throwing traps of it with no Power Charges active. It just followed the normal Trap charge/stock system behavior.

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z1754888 wrote:

And further with less trap recharge to combat this or how the new functionality of multiple, cluster trap works we won't be able to maintain more than 3 blink/mirror clones at once (unless you have more duration even then not much difference) which is down from a maximum of 60-70. (although a decent build might sit more in the middle of that more does not always mean more damage.) Not only due to it's own cooldown is it hurt with regards to traps and the new changes but nerfs to trap cooldown. RIP mirror/blink.

Okay... I don't think you quite understand the changes to traps. I'll try to clarify:

1. Less trap recharge? Yeah, cool-down reduction for traps was nerfed because the only traps that have a cool-down now (Flamethrower, Lightning Spire, Seismic and Siphoning) are strong enough to warrant the cool-down. The other traps no longer have a cool-down, so there's less of a need for cool-down reduction.


2. Also, something you seemed to have missed, the traps that no longer have a cool-down (all except the 4 above, and maybe Bear Trap) NO LONGER USE THE CHARGE/STOCK SYSTEM. You no longer have a charge/stock of 3 for those traps, you can just throw and have as many traps as your limit, which got a HUGE buff as well. The limit before was 3, with another 3 from the tree, 3 from Multi and 5 from Cluster... so the max number of traps you could have out at a time was 14. Now, the DEFAULT limit is 15... letting you hit a max of 29 now. So unless you somehow get a metric-shit-ton of Trap Throwing Speed, outside of pre-throwing traps before a boss activates (doing Atziri fights), the only time you should hit that limit is if you suck at throwing traps at enemies.

Actually it is you I think who does not understand. Put it simply go use mine support with mirror and or blink arrow and come back to me. I understand the entire update on traps hence why I brought this up. You will not be able to get out your maximum number of traps with mirror and blink arrow without expending more than 3-4 seconds PER throw due to the cooldown. The whole reason cooldown abilities functioned well with trap support and not mines was due to the fact that the charge system existed. Otherwise people would have had used mines to begin with for mirror, blink. With that system removed for trap support and cooldown hit hard then it will take over 30 to 60 seconds to reach 15 mirror traps on the ground and an additional 30 to 60 15 blink traps. Which is just not practical compared to the 5 seconds it took to get all 30 traps down.

How are we supposed to get Vall skills that "Can no longer be obtained via corruption, Vaal side area, or divination card" ????

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z1754888 wrote:

Actually it is you I think who does not understand. Put it simply go use mine support with mirror and or blink arrow and come back to me. I understand the entire update on traps hence why I brought this up. You will not be able to get out your maximum number of traps with mirror and blink arrow without expending more than 3-4 seconds PER throw due to the cooldown. The whole reason cooldown abilities functioned well with trap support and not mines was due to the fact that the charge system existed. Otherwise people would have had used mines to begin with for mirror, blink. With that system removed for trap support and cooldown hit hard then it will take over 30 to 60 seconds to reach 15 mirror traps on the ground and an additional 30 to 60 15 blink traps. Which is just not practical compared to the 5 seconds it took to get all 30 traps down.

Okay, so to make sure I understand what you are saying:

Right now in 3.2, if I link Mirror Arrow with Trap Support, the 3s cool-down of Mirror Arrow is still applied when I throw a Trap. This cool-down DOESN'T work the same as self-cast and instead, because of traps, it lets you bypass this base cool-down and cast multiple times, because it's instead being changed to match the cool-down of the charge system. Since this is 4s and Mirror Arrow is 3s, the CD is "hidden". So you could throw 1/3/4/7 traps at a time without triggering the 3s base CD, and throw your 3 charges without triggering this base CD as well. Meaning, while ignoring the 3s base CD of Mirror Arrow, you'd be able to realistically get 21 down instantly because getting any charges back with Multi+Cluster.

Is that correct?

I'm not at my PC to verify, but what I said above is what you are saying happens now, right?

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Yadeehoo wrote:

How are we supposed to get Vall skills that "Can no longer be obtained via corruption, Vaal side area, or divination card" ????

Other ways I can see are special chests (in lab) or "Contains an extra Vaal Gem" affix on gemcutter's strongboxes. But it's possible they just become legacy... (I hope they don't)

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Tamoketh wrote:

Okay, so to make sure I understand what you are saying:

Right now in 3.2, if I link Mirror Arrow with Trap Support, the 3s cool-down of Mirror Arrow is still applied when I throw a Trap. This cool-down DOESN'T work the same as self-cast and instead, because of traps, it lets you bypass this base cool-down and cast multiple times, because it's instead being changed to match the cool-down of the charge system. Since this is 4s and Mirror Arrow is 3s, the CD is "hidden". So you could throw 1/3/4/7 traps at a time without triggering the 3s base CD, and throw your 3 charges without triggering this base CD as well. Meaning, while ignoring the 3s base CD of Mirror Arrow, you'd be able to realistically get 21 down instantly because getting any charges back with Multi+Cluster.

Is that correct?

I'm not at my PC to verify, but what I said above is what you are saying happens now, right?

3.2 traps for mirror/blink:

Mirror + trap support: 1 trap thrown, 4 second cooldown.
Mirror + trap support + multiple: 3 trap thrown, 4 second cooldown.
Mirror + trap support + cluster: 4 trap thrown, 4 second cooldown.
Mirror + trap support + multiple + cluster: 6 trap thrown, 4 second cooldown. (not practical)

Mirror arrow cooldown: 3 seconds, Trap support cooldown: 4 seconds. Highest cooldown will be used.
6 traps thrown at once causes too much -less damage therefore it really shouldn't be considered practical. So, let's assume we throw 4 traps at once.

3 charges x 4 = 12 traps with trap throwing speed this can be done relatively quick. Now let's also assume we have blink arrow on top of mirror arrow. In combination that is 6 x 4 = 24 traps. With a cooldown of 4 seconds by the time we extend both of them we can at the very least have 2 additional charges (1 from mirror will recharge, 1 from blink will recharge nearly) this is how we get to 30 traps in a 5 second span due to throw time, trigger time, and recharge time.

Build focused on duration and cooldown in 3.2 ~ and example of cooldown of base skill 4/s a charge.



3.3 traps for mirror/blink:

Mirror + trap support: 1 trap thrown, 3 second cooldown.
Mirror + trap support + multiple: 3 trap thrown, 3 second cooldown.
Mirror + trap support + cluster: 4 trap thrown, 3 second cooldown.
Mirror + trap support + multiple + cluster: 6 trap thrown, 3 second cooldown.

1 use x 4 = 4 traps. Assuming blink arrow in combination that is 2 x 4 = 8 traps. By the end of it blink and mirror will still be on cool down because it does not take 3 seconds to 2 traps thus causing down time every 8 traps thrown.

Math is hard if I'm mathing correctly that would be 100 - ((8/30) x 100) = 73.3 less effective or rather if you prefer only 26.6% of what was originally possible. Mind you this also doesn't take into effect cooldown which will only make this number much less than 26.6 in terms of effectiveness. Incredibly that is... So, 26.6% effective assuming you use base cooldown. If you're taking into account cooldown nerfs... or current version cooldown effectiveness would probably be less than 10.

Bonus pic: Reference of mine functionality with blink: (3 second cooldown and no charges) current 3.2

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z1754888 wrote:

Mirror arrow cooldown: 3 seconds, Trap support cooldown: 4 seconds. Highest cooldown will be used.

Okay, this is exactly what I was hoping you would say, because your ENTIRE worry hinges on this exact line.

(is there a spell that has a CD higher than 4s?)

The thing is, when not using traps, cool-downs apply instantly. I press the skill with Mirror Arrow = I have a 3 second cool-down before I can use it again. Traps use a 3 Charge/Stock system, so I can press the skill 3 times before I have to wait, but as soon as I press it once, it starts the cool-down for giving back 1 charge/stock.

Your worries seems to assume that with this change, since Trap Support will no longer have a cool-down or charge/stock system, that it will instead use the CD of Mirror Arrow, making you wait 3 seconds every time you press the button to throw a skill.

My question would be, since Cooldown Recovery Speed for Throwing Traps doesn't apply to the CD of Mirror Arrow, and that on your V_______V character you have "110% increased Cooldown Recovery Speed for throwing Traps", wouldn't that mean that instead of the 4s cool-down on Trap Support it would lower it to about 1.9s? And if the highest CD is used, wouldn't it then use the 3s CD of Mirror Arrow at this point, since it's the higher one?




Maybe the confusion is that, since you use Trap Support and turn the skill into a trap, it behaves like a trap and the base cool-down of the skill no longer applies.

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Tamoketh wrote:

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z1754888 wrote:

Mirror arrow cooldown: 3 seconds, Trap support cooldown: 4 seconds. Highest cooldown will be used.

Okay, this is exactly what I was hoping you would say, because your ENTIRE worry hinges on this exact line.

(is there a spell that has a CD higher than 4s?)

The thing is, when not using traps, cool-downs apply instantly. I press the skill with Mirror Arrow = I have a 3 second cool-down before I can use it again. Traps use a 3 Charge/Stock system, so I can press the skill 3 times before I have to wait, but as soon as I press it once, it starts the cool-down for giving back 1 charge/stock.

Your worries seems to assume that with this change, since Trap Support will no longer have a cool-down or charge/stock system, that it will instead use the CD of Mirror Arrow, making you wait 3 seconds every time you press the button to throw a skill.

My question would be, since Cooldown Recovery Speed for Throwing Traps doesn't apply to the CD of Mirror Arrow, and that

Cooldown is shared based on what is supporting it. If I wear a helmet that recharges mirror arrow faster it will reduce the cooldown of my trap if trap support is supporting mirror arrow. Likewise if mirror arrow is supported by trap then it will be reduced by trap cooldown recovery. Again since charges are being removed 1 use would instantly put it on recharge just like it does with mines thus substantially reducing your out put regardless of the 1 second difference given to you since trap will use 3s instead of 4 in 3.3 for mirror arrow. That is not an assumption that is fact. you're comparing 6 charges to 2 uses. 6 charges will always be better than 2 uses especially since by the end of 6 charges you would have netted another 2. Essentially being considered 8 charges vs 2 uses.