3.4.3b Patch Notes

"

OSik83 wrote:

So:
* Target - nerfing quarry seems to be achieved (there seems to be more variance in where sulfite spawns and the rate is now compleetly insufficient to anything besides T1-2)

* Cap for sulfite seems only increased in some upgrade levels, as such some people might be somewhat stuck in a circle of go to low depths and farm azurite in low-ish amounts till they can afford to increase cap to match new values (i would suggest in next patch to smooth out the progression of the cap values in the upgrade stages 7-9 (450-3000)

* Sulfite in maps seems to have more variance in values then before:
T1 white maps ranging from 30-48
T1 IIQ ~50 all were around 45 (possibly bad RNG streak)
T1 IIQ 95-118 58 - 73
Would personally suggest for areas of 68+ to lower the variance (for instance T1 white to around 40 ish, and increase the effect of IIQ partially)

* Side suggestion -> Add increased chances of 2nd/3rd sulfite node to maps (does not have to be huge but should probably be noticable)


* Sulfite cost vs income - to be continued.

"

y3lw0rC wrote:

"

OSik83 wrote:

So:
* Target - nerfing quarry seems to be achieved (there seems to be more variance in where sulfite spawns and the rate is now compleetly insufficient to anything besides T1-2)

* Cap for sulfite seems only increased in some upgrade levels, as such some people might be somewhat stuck in a circle of go to low depths and farm azurite in low-ish amounts till they can afford to increase cap to match new values (i would suggest in next patch to smooth out the progression of the cap values in the upgrade stages 7-9 (450-3000)

* Sulfite in maps seems to have more variance in values then before:
T1 white maps ranging from 30-48
T1 IIQ ~50 all were around 45 (possibly bad RNG streak)
T1 IIQ 95-118 58 - 73
Would personally suggest for areas of 68+ to lower the variance (for instance T1 white to around 40 ish, and increase the effect of IIQ partially)

* Side suggestion -> Add increased chances of 2nd/3rd sulfite node to maps (does not have to be huge but should probably be noticable)


* Sulfite cost vs income - to be continued.

Really nice suggestions.

AND YES. I found a post that was written recently by GGG where they stated that they will be increasing the sulfite cap at all upgrade levels. It somehow doesn't seem my sulfite cap went any higher. Did they change their mind in the last minute or something?

"

Axel_Moore wrote:

Sulphite Capacity? Who ask for that, we want more sulphite not more capacity :D Btw where is that official reply? thanks

• The overall reward rate ON AVERAGE for delving is very high. It's not just the resonators, but also the relic keys and double-corrupt (even TRIPLE-corrupt) gems that I've seen drop, some uniques, and other various things.
  
  
• Variance in reward rate is very, very high: so some players will get loads of great stuff real quick, while a lot of players will get basically nothing.
  
  
• While the high depth allows for the POTENTIAL to challenge players much better than just farming Uber Elder, it's gated behind too much farm balanced around the high potential rewards.

• Cap sulphite costs earlier. Max level of 83 is hit by what, Depth 200, and after that you're basically just stacking on (gentle) map mods? If the challenge is supposed to draw players, perhaps make it more accessible so that the gating is on build/skill, not grinding sulphite. Delving straight down to push the highest challenge possible shouldn't be terribly expensive.
  
  
• Their belief that players couldn't pass 1,500 (or even 3,000) could only rest on their assumption that their grindwall would stop players. With just map mods being added, no, there's not going to be any practical limit to how deep players can delve. GGG has kinda revealed (unintentionally) that the talent pool they have in testing the game is kinda dwarfed by what the game's best pros/streamers can bring to the table. GGG should probably reconsider how the challenge scales. I still felt that an "zero-benefit leveling" thing should be present, where the monsters de-facto gain more levels, but their iLvl remains at 83+, and they only grant EXP as if 83. So in that case, the only benefit would be "bragging rights," which, as we all know, is the most valuable thing, and poses no threat of "instability" to the economy or gameplay for others.
  
  
• The rewards balance needs to be looked at. It needs to get both a lot more CONSISTENT, as well as the overall rate (per sulphite) LOWERED. One good possibility: change sulphite costs dependent on the type of node you're headed to. If rewards were less random, they could justify making important reward nodes much more expensive. This would create a pretty solid system for controlling rewards on GGG's end: ordinary delving for challenge could just take cheap nodes and quickly make distance, but actually CLAIMING those rewards would require expending (and potentially risking) large quantities of sulphite.
  
  If there's one thing we learned, even if the road to loot is made very, very long, players will still be happy if they can feel they make meaningful progress. And that sort of system for Delve rewards would please a lot of folk: GGG could actually LOWER overall reward rates, but players could actually count up their progress to said rewards. And if their particular mine seemed sparse? Well, it wouldn't cost as much to just quickly run along and scout out more of the mine to try to find more reward nodes.
  
  
• Lastly, make sulphite tradeable. I mean, its costs are used to gate rewards, so this wouldn't impact the total economics. This would be much like Labyrinth: allowing some players who LIKE the content to focus it, while allowing other players to safely ignore it by trading away their keys. (offerings or sulphite)

"

ACGIFT wrote:

I think part of the core of our problem comes from the following. No single issue alone was too bad, but taken together:

• The overall reward rate ON AVERAGE for delving is very high. It's not just the resonators, but also the relic keys and double-corrupt (even TRIPLE-corrupt) gems that I've seen drop, some uniques, and other various things.
  
  
• Variance in reward rate is very, very high: so some players will get loads of great stuff real quick, while a lot of players will get basically nothing.
  
  
• While the high depth allows for the POTENTIAL to challenge players much better than just farming Uber Elder, it's gated behind too much farm balanced around the high potential rewards.

The scaling gains in sulphite was a bit of a fix: this way it makes it more plausible to rapidly "catch up" to your appropriate challenge level by just doing high-level maps.

Still, it needs further improvement. GGG suggested it was an actual CHALLENGE, which would have to mean it'd be a viable alternative to mapping. Which, y'know, we also have in the Eternal Labyrinth. So looking at that, GGG should look at the following:

• Cap sulphite costs earlier. Max level of 83 is hit by what, Depth 200, and after that you're basically just stacking on (gentle) map mods? If the challenge is supposed to draw players, perhaps make it more accessible so that the gating is on build/skill, not grinding sulphite. Delving straight down to push the highest challenge possible shouldn't be terribly expensive.
  
  
• Their belief that players couldn't pass 1,500 (or even 3,000) could only rest on their assumption that their grindwall would stop players. With just map mods being added, no, there's not going to be any practical limit to how deep players can delve. GGG has kinda revealed (unintentionally) that the talent pool they have in testing the game is kinda dwarfed by what the game's best pros/streamers can bring to the table. GGG should probably reconsider how the challenge scales. I still felt that an "zero-benefit leveling" thing should be present, where the monsters de-facto gain more levels, but their iLvl remains at 83+, and they only grant EXP as if 83. So in that case, the only benefit would be "bragging rights," which, as we all know, is the most valuable thing, and poses no threat of "instability" to the economy or gameplay for others.
  
  
• The rewards balance needs to be looked at. It needs to get both a lot more CONSISTENT, as well as the overall rate (per sulphite) LOWERED. One good possibility: change sulphite costs dependent on the type of node you're headed to. If rewards were less random, they could justify making important reward nodes much more expensive. This would create a pretty solid system for controlling rewards on GGG's end: ordinary delving for challenge could just take cheap nodes and quickly make distance, but actually CLAIMING those rewards would require expending (and potentially risking) large quantities of sulphite.
  
  If there's one thing we learned, even if the road to loot is made very, very long, players will still be happy if they can feel they make meaningful progress. And that sort of system for Delve rewards would please a lot of folk: GGG could actually LOWER overall reward rates, but players could actually count up their progress to said rewards. And if their particular mine seemed sparse? Well, it wouldn't cost as much to just quickly run along and scout out more of the mine to try to find more reward nodes.
  
  
• Lastly, make sulphite tradeable. I mean, its costs are used to gate rewards, so this wouldn't impact the total economics. This would be much like Labyrinth: allowing some players who LIKE the content to focus it, while allowing other players to safely ignore it by trading away their keys. (offerings or sulphite)