Did GGG lose their moral compass?

Bait it is.

Let's fix that with some quality 'bating then.

Fun fact: 'Revenge' is an English loanword in Japanese ('Ribenji') that almost never means 'revenge' (because of course there's already a word in Japanese for a concept so clearly made for stupidly sharp swords: 'fukushuu'). It's not uncommon to hear 'ribenji' used in reference to getting a second chance, such as a rematch or re-attempt at something previously lost or failed. They even make it a gerund, because of course they do. In this context, Revenge of the Jedi kind of works.

https://maki.typepad.com/justhungry/2008/02/revenge-and-rib.html

These wasei eigo are a real hassle for both translators and English listeners, who will hear familiar words used...very strangely. One of my favourites is 'sutairu' (style) -- used almost exclusively about a woman's figure.

Fun fact 2: Friend in high school had a print of that first poster, framed and preserved behind glass. I thought it was fake at first. More specifically, his parents had a print of it, because I doubt any of us could have afforded one back then.

Another fun fact: Toshiro Mifune very nearly played Obi-Wan.

Because Star Wars wasn't already close enough to The Hidden Fortress...also, kind of glad this didn't happen. Mifuné is one of my favourite actors (Samurai trilogy *chef kiss*), but he did not transition to the West well. Red Sun and Shogun...yeaaaah. You kind of need an English native speaker to portray a pseudo-version of England's most famous royal counsellor. Now Mifuné as Darth Vader I could see, given the samurai helmet and all, but surely a role so overshadowed by That Voice would be beneath his talents.

It is interesting though, how the Jedi went from basically Space Samurai-Knights in both poise and status in the original trilogy to bumbling Kung Fu-Telekinetics in the prequels, and no one embodies this more than Anakin 'I hate sand but I love you more' himself. For some reason Lucas just completely forgot the gravitas and respect in Alec Guinness' (admittedly very forced) delivery of what sort of man Luke's father was during the Clone Wars. He forgot that the whole spiel was deeply informed by Arthurian legend and just defaulted to some sort of Last Days of the Roman Republic mess. Luke might have been the young king in hiding, but Anakin sure as hell was no Uther.

It's odd to see a thread started decrying GGG casting us in the role of an antihero, coming full circle with Toshiro Mifune entering from stage left

WEll worth the price of admission, and a bucket of sweet popcorn besides!

And yet sort of inevitable. Any enduring conversation about 'Revenge of the Jedi' that doesn't skew towards Mifuné/Kurosawa isn't trying anywhere near hard enough.

I mean, Dalai had the temerity to post an On-Topic thread in Off-Topic. It was our collective uncivic duty to derail the shit out of it...respectfully.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Least we forget there used to be a dead baby on the beach...

Used to be...


In act V Oriath Square, the game allows you to kill townspeople, but not the Karui.

While I don't think GGG is endorsing a life of crime or violence against any group, I do think they have become a bit slack in the supporting backstory. I can understand why there isn't as much investment in it as before, since most people don't engage with the lore but just focus on the mechanics.

Note the thread wasn't intended as "bait". I know the lore of PoE is brutal, but for much of it, the various figures are either deranged or forced into the position by circumstances.

I think GGG could have included some names for the Oriath Square townspeople . I think GGG should have set up the lore so that the loot in Heist is stolen artifacts.

Maybe, they have, and I'm jumping to conclusions because I haven't seen all the Heist dialogue. I may not care for the parent company, but I still see Grinding Gear Games as the good guys - an ethical company. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. YMMV.

If it were truly meant as bait/'bate I wouldn't have said it. Sometimes a wordplay is just a cigar.

But...you're serious? Did you miss the conversations about Bestiary and animal cruelty? About Incursion and the conquistadors? They were in General Discussion, so maybe you did. Frankly, GGG lost any 'moral compass' points in terms of design the moment they used atrocity as a cheap prop in Act III. In light of that, though, Act V's slaughter of the citizens makes sense: this is the seat of power from which said atrocities sprung, albeit in that 'oh but ve did not know vat vas really goink on' kind of way. And, as has been pointed out countless times, the Exile is by Oriath standards a bit of a psychopath. Even by game design standards -- you only do quests if they have an appropriate reward and you know we'd kill babies in their cribs if they dropped Mirrors.

It's not that GGG have 'become slack' in the supporting backstory. They've become slack in hiding how little they care about the moral implications of their own work, including its flimsy backstory. And why wouldn't they? 'Lore doesn't even need to make sense, it's just a game' seems a too-common sentiment among the player base. Many proudly proclaim they don't even read it (not realising what a cliché they've become in 2020 I guess).

When you talk about including names for Oriathans, what you're asking for is removing the Otherness from them. To humanise them. I don't think that works from the Exile's perspective at all. You've spent 4 acts murdering your way across Wræclast, cast out by these so-called civil people and their so-called civil society. You've accumulated power. You've killed most of the top Church members. To Oriath, you ARE the monster. I'd fucking run screaming from you too.

GGG might have been the 'good guys' from an ethical free-to-play perspective, but I see no reason to conflate that with 'good guys' as regards the content of their game. At no point did I get a sense of morality from the Exile's journey from washed-up to deicidal accidental hero. At no point did I feel GGG were saying much at all with any of it beyond some vague, 'we know you, ARPG players, who you really are, and we're going to give you every chance to show it, and you'll be too busy doing it to realise that's what we're doing'. Also, plz buy more support packs kthxbai.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

It is interesting though, how the Jedi went from basically Space Samurai-Knights in both poise and status in the original trilogy to bumbling Kung Fu-Telekinetics in the prequels, and no one embodies this more than Anakin 'I hate sand but I love you more' himself. For some reason Lucas just completely forgot the gravitas and respect in Alec Guinness' (admittedly very forced) delivery of what sort of man Luke's father was during the Clone Wars. He forgot that the whole spiel was deeply informed by Arthurian legend and just defaulted to some sort of Last Days of the Roman Republic mess. Luke might have been the young king in hiding, but Anakin sure as hell was no Uther.

Star Wars went from a collection of beloved concepts:

"Something Olde,
Something New,
Something Borrowed,
Something Blue"


to a sale of random things found in the garage.

True, but Dave Filoni made the best of it, and in my opinion made the best of it. It's hard to hate a bad date or two that leads to an amazing friendship.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

If it were truly meant as bait/'bate I wouldn't have said it. Sometimes a wordplay is just a cigar.

I wasn't questioning your line there - it was clear as something for fun. I meant that I was serious.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

But...you're serious? Did you miss the conversations about Bestiary and animal cruelty?

I didn't like the bestiary content, not sure if I played in that league past act one. The only thing I do with it now is use it to get "of Staunching" on flasks to save on alt orbs.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

About Incursion and the conquistadors?

I recall that, and chipped in my two cents as well on that.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

When you talk about including names for Oriathans, what you're asking for is removing the Otherness from them. To humanise them. I don't think that works from the Exile's perspective at all. You've spent 4 acts murdering your way across Wræclast, cast out by these so-called civil people and their so-called civil society. You've accumulated power. You've killed most of the top Church members. To Oriath, you ARE the monster. I'd fucking run screaming from you too.

I saw them as the people that had corrupted the Oriath Church and used their power to harm others. I usually try to save as many as I can (unless I'm running a minion build, in which case it's a lost cause)

I mostly agree with your other points. Maybe I'm insane in looking for sanity.