Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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Viesniaq wrote:
I am a semi-casual player. I do not do leagues as I cannot stand wasting time to level characters to mapping stage. Harvest crafting was a way to BRING hope that one day I would be able to create a meaningful item that would elevate my gaming to a higher standar. This hope for a realistic chance of crafting something nice drove me to play. With harvest nerfed, I am just going to quit playing. I am not a super fan of hardcore crafting and this is now the only way to push characters in POE. With Harvest nerfed I will not feel like playing the game as droping meaningful loot is almost impossible. Crafting has become so complex now, that it seems one cannot create an item without watching a guide about it on YT. POE is a great game, I love the systems that are introduced to the game, but it is just sooo unfriendly to casual or semi-casual players. Experimenting with new skills and builds is a nightmare (having to constantly socket gem in and out). The total lack of UI for this is just so surprising for me. Trying out a new build takes days to logistically organize, which is such a pitty, as there are so many skills that I would love to try out, but without all the hassle. I will stop my rambling here, I think I am just getting old and stupid and need a simpler game. Cheers


Old and in the Way...LoL...I whole heartedly agree exhile! Now excuse me while I grease my mouse! ;)
harvest in its current form got me back into poe after a year+ break.

becouse of the unparalleled freedom it gave me currency whise, i was able to reaaaly help people i met this league. kind strangers that ended up in my HO for a simple trade. but left with so much more

people who had a few leagues under there belt's. without 3000 hours played

i helped em this league i could afford NOT to pinch every chaos for my endgame goal. i still hit what i aimed to achieve, and i only hit 19 days /played becouse of the new frends i made along the way.

guess future leagues its back to being selfish, adding harvest realy was the right move. who cares if trade league items are accesable to everyone

the pixels are just pixels, the kind gestures i could do without harming myself were real and tangible.

ty for taking this amazing tool away from the average joe. but not realy..
I really really don't like how effective this makes sniping semi-niche items on trade.
I prefer finding and crafting items I need myself instead of camping trade 24/7 with live searches.

With Harvest gutted, self-crafting non-meta items will become unfeasible and push people away from demanding (in terms of itemization) non-meta builds.
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SA_Lumis wrote:
If the community reaction to nerfing Harvest is negative because people liked it and chose to repeatedly farm it for gear IN A GAME ABOUT GETTING GOOD GEAR over all the other content in the game, maybe Harvest isn't the problem.

Maybe the problem is that the other content in the game isn't nearly rewarding enough.

99.9% of the stuff hitting the ground is garbage that people just won't pick up. That's just not good design.

Deterministic outcomes is something the game needs, whether it be in Harvest or some other form that significantly mitigates the RNG aspect of the game. The outcry should really illustrate that.


This !!!! +1
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Turtledove wrote:
I thought Chris Wilson's opening post was well written and thought out. It would seem from his OP that the two big mistakes made was releasing harvest the way it was in the first place and then compounding that error by releasing the insufficiently nerfed harvest in the second place. It pains me to see all the folks that are upset by this decision by GGG. PoE is a fun game with or without harvest is what I'd like to remind folks.


There's a conflict here between making a project based on passion and based on business.
There are rare cases when you're passionate about some ideas and they happen to be the solution for a wide audience and that's an instant hit.

Then the remaining 99% of the time you have this dilemma: You either stick to your ideas and take the risk that it won't find an audience, or you give up that part of your ego and just go for user experience.
Both suck big time.
Either you're a misunderstood genius struggling to pay the bills or let the control out of your hands, let your best ideas called stupid, etc, and get paid for executing. And you make this decision each week or so.

I think this is the case here. The team has a vision but at the same time has an established user base. For one reason or another, doesn't really matter, the vision of the team diverged from the vision of the user base (or business interest to be more precise, as of course, not everyone is against this change).

How to resolve this?
- Either you just don't. Depending on the investor situation, go with your gut feeling and hope for market fit regardless. Or just don't care about business at all.
(- Convince the user base how this will make the game better)
- Come up with a new solution that satisfies the demand
- ???

all the options are valid and understandable but comes with consequences.
I can't wait for Diablo II, i'm tired of GGG, i regret spending money this league, it will not happen anymore, i'll check POE2 if thing are better.
I'm honestly sad with GGG. First they nerf Ritual to the point where doing it is just a waste of time in 99.9% of cases and now they are removing a big portion of their playerbase with their newest Manifesto.
I've been playing PoE on and off since Closed Beta, not playing a lot in Leagues I didn't enjoy and generally just feeling burnt out of the game. I pretty much didn't play for 3 or 4 Leagues now and came back because this League was fun in the beginning. Doing Rituals, getting some cool items along the way. Now doing them just feels like a joke, spending so much time just to get like what, 4 more chaos per map when I could have done another map in the time I did all the rituals?
And now they gut the next league mechanic just because "It's too OP and Discord". How is this going to fix anything? It'll make the issue with Discord even more prevelent and ruin the fun for a majority of the playerbase. It's fun for new and casual players since they can actually work towards the items they want themselves instead of having to run through maps gathering as much currency as they can just so they can afford a small upgrade for themselves. And more experiences players can have their fun creating god tier items, trying to top eachother with every craft they do, giving more incentive to keep playing the league.
I have to be honest, I never cared for crafting, never crafted and never will because it is just not my cup of tea, but I enjoyed the availability of decent build-enabling items on the market that allowed you to throw together some builds you could have never pulled off before as a casual player that doesn't rush through maps. "Grind to grind faster" is a philosophy I do not enjoy as it just takes away the fun of a game and makes you burn out incredibly quick as you can't see your character progress and get stronger in a meaningful time.
I don't want to sit there and grind and grind just to complete a single build per league, always having to keep in mind that I am maximizing my profits or I won't be able to do endgame on a build I enjoy playing that is not meta or abusing somekind of other mechanic.
Make drops meaningful or leave us with deterministic item progression, nobody like RNG hell, nobody closes their eyes to use an exalt on something other than Streamers that play this game full time or the top 0.1% of players that found a way to abuse your broken League mechanics like the Mirror Splinters this League that you patched after a minority manage to abuse it and then used money to print more money.
We see Exalts and Chaos as currency not as crafting material in 99% of cases, nobody is going to just "Exalt slam" an item when they don't have a meaningful outcome or doing it for the comedic purpose of using it when they have 50 more in their stash and the item is already perfectly fine for their build.
LOL.....

So only the super mega players will ever get a chance to play the high game.... All you did was drive up pricing on offline sources....

Oh well, your game... you can be dumb all you want.

I pray every day for competition....
If you are so worried about the TFT discord you could very easily make the crafts tradable like you did with Bestiary beasts.

If you are worried that people aren't spending their currency on crafts you could make it so every craft costs the specific type of currency + the craft. Aug would cost an ex to use, randomize a divine and annul would cost an annulment, there is your currency usage.

If you are worried about people wanting to get perfect gear maybe you should stop throwing at us ridiculous encounters like "The Feared" only achiavable by the 0.1%.

Or even better, you could do all of the above, but instead of doing what your community very obviously expect you just remove one of the very few mechanics that are worth a damn in the entire game.

Dissapointment.

[Removed by Support]
Last edited by Will_GGG#0000 on Mar 11, 2021, 5:31:15 PM
Not going to lie, this is a bad direction and take. I understand GGG's PoV, but I have to say I disagree completely. Deterministic crafting is desperately needed in this game.
Been running Aura Support since 2.5 (15+ leagues in a row now).

Aura Support Diary - 2094025

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