[3.15 WIP] Saboteur Crit BL Mines (Life League-start/SSF to Budget LL ES All Content Viable)

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Ichigo_333 wrote:

so with the tests that i did UNLESS im just dumb or blind, the added spell dmg to my weapon/HoT all contribute to armageddon brand which makes it deal fire/lightning dmg so im only getting a vulnerable to cold.

this setup has pondered the thought of a double call of the brotherhood setup and replacing the ee ring with ee on the tree since its just there, but im yet to test that far

Conversion is also a good option I’ve considered for sure but you gotta keep into context that you’re probably over investing at that point as the build without conversion will function fine to get you to red maps and there’s not much investment to transition to LL ES which is significantly better than any variant of the life/dodge build anyway. Don’t over invest in options outside of LL ES— your priorities should 100% be 5L Shav’s and Presence of Chayula. Farm the Atziri items yourself and save your currency, she’s 100% manageable at the point you finish the campaign. Invest in Malachai’s Artifice (1c on trade right now), Call of the Brotherhood is 40c. You could buy a Shavronne’s base for nearly that price or damn near Presence of Chayula for the price of two.

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Yeah, to be honest I don't really know enough about builds so when a build guide doesn't explicitly tell me what to do, I start trying to figure things out on my own and obviously in this case it didn't work out at all, lol.

Could you please tell me what to do? Switch one of the wands for a shield and craft a +1 Lightning spells wand on my own?

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That’s a fair point, and I actually recommend everyone try stuff on their own (hindsight is 20/20, 35c is not a big deal to lose it just wouldn’ve been nice to save.) To be fair, I’m short on time at the moment, a lot going on in life and I’ve tried to actually play the new league when I have free time. The leveling guide and entry mapping/red mapping sections were literally finished days before league start so some more extensive testing can help them a lot. I’ll try to work on those today. In the meantime, there are goals in the red mapping section that you should be working on from the time you start mapping, for example:

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‣ Self crafted wands with +1 to all Lightning Spells and Lightning Damage to Spells or Crit to Spells (normal wand + 40% total quality “lightning” 2 or more gems sold to vendor gives a magic +1 to all Lightning spell base, bench craft and/or regal orb to get the rest)

We’ve just established there’s a confliction with +lightning damage to spells and EE so I’ll update this and remove that option.

No worries, I understand you're busy. You've already made a great guide which I'm grateful for. There's no rush in updating the guide, I'll be patiently waiting.

Thanks!!

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jpypoe wrote:

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Ichigo_333 wrote:

so with the tests that i did UNLESS im just dumb or blind, the added spell dmg to my weapon/HoT all contribute to armageddon brand which makes it deal fire/lightning dmg so im only getting a vulnerable to cold.

this setup has pondered the thought of a double call of the brotherhood setup and replacing the ee ring with ee on the tree since its just there, but im yet to test that far

Conversion is also a good option I’ve considered for sure but you gotta keep into context that you’re probably over investing at that point as the build without conversion will function fine to get you to red maps and there’s not much investment to transition to LL ES which is significantly better than any variant of the life/dodge build anyway. Don’t over invest in options outside of LL ES— your priorities should 100% be 5L Shav’s and Presence of Chayula. Farm the Atziri items yourself and save your currency, she’s 100% manageable at the point you finish the campaign. Invest in Malachai’s Artifice (1c on trade right now), Call of the Brotherhood is 40c. You could buy a Shavronne’s base for nearly that price or damn near Presence of Chayula for the price of two.

my gear is semi ok, just looking at the next step since this patch has gone in a different direction than last league, red maps hurts quite a bit now im finding especially with some ailments/poisons chill is a big one which i have a work around im working on but will wait till the AA buff

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Ichigo_333 wrote:

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jpypoe wrote:

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Ichigo_333 wrote:

so with the tests that i did UNLESS im just dumb or blind, the added spell dmg to my weapon/HoT all contribute to armageddon brand which makes it deal fire/lightning dmg so im only getting a vulnerable to cold.

this setup has pondered the thought of a double call of the brotherhood setup and replacing the ee ring with ee on the tree since its just there, but im yet to test that far

Conversion is also a good option I’ve considered for sure but you gotta keep into context that you’re probably over investing at that point as the build without conversion will function fine to get you to red maps and there’s not much investment to transition to LL ES which is significantly better than any variant of the life/dodge build anyway. Don’t over invest in options outside of LL ES— your priorities should 100% be 5L Shav’s and Presence of Chayula. Farm the Atziri items yourself and save your currency, she’s 100% manageable at the point you finish the campaign. Invest in Malachai’s Artifice (1c on trade right now), Call of the Brotherhood is 40c. You could buy a Shavronne’s base for nearly that price or damn near Presence of Chayula for the price of two.

my gear is semi ok, just looking at the next step since this patch has gone in a different direction than last league, red maps hurts quite a bit now im finding especially with some ailments/poisons chill is a big one which i have a work around im working on but will wait till the AA buff

Aquamarine, of Heat, and upgraded Brine King are really our only solutions to freeze right now but of Heat is getting +3 seconds on immunity soon. The new Arctic Armor looks very interesting but would be a lot harder to fit in on the LL ES variant compared to the life setup but I suppose we could just drop HoT there too. Need to test the new version of Arctic Armor when it’s released to see how it feels and know more. Make sure you’re swapping pantheons to compliment the content you’re running (Al-Hezmin in particular can be nasty for a budget ES variant). Enduring composure can help quite a bit with survival for red maps if you don’t have it and just trying to scale chaos resistance where you can.

E: If you already have the LL ES setup online I think there are better options than conversion moving forward and it’s going to fundamentally change quite a few things about the build. You’re also giving up a ton of damage or a good bit of ES from the ring slot.

E: added the changes we discussed for entry mapping/rep maps to fix the issues with added lightning damage to spells and EE and changed a few smaller things. Waiting on the changes to mana multipliers, Arctic Armor, and flask immunity mods before reworking the end game budget setup etc. I have plenty of notes of potential changes for multiple aspects of the guide and pob for the near future.

Adjusted support mana multipliers, flask immunity mods, aquamarine flask, Arctic Armor and other changes are now live: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3152771

What this means for us is it’s even easier to reach our ideal mana thresholds with 19 mines out, survival has been buffed by quite a bit thanks to 300% increased ailment immunity uptime (effectively these should be even higher priority for you, they’re insanely good), and we can now choose between Aquamarine + Herald of Thunder or Arctic Armor + free flask slot. I’m still favoring the former because I don’t feel the flask slots are as valuable as before, particularly on a budget, but both are great options and just having 100% uptime on Freeze Immunity is good quality of life. Will test Arctic Armor to see how the other effects of the gem feel and get back to this but it’s very promising for sure.

E: I was extremely wrong in my assumptions about how Arctic Armor works, I honestly haven't had a reason to use it before. This is insanely good, no reason to use aquamarine flask or upgrade the freeze component of Brine King pantheon TBH, this is far too good to skip for Herald of Thunder on a build using a 50% added damage effectiveness skill. We free up flask modifiers to double down on bleed and poison immunity, free up an extra flask slot for jade or silver, and just get free 100% uptime on freeze immunity. Will edit the guide and PoB soon.

E2: PoB updated

I have some big changes planned for the guide that will be added over the weekend next week including formatting, separate leveling/mapping PoBs, gem rework and a section added for them in the guide, browser trees, item links, revamped leveling and mapping sections and more.

For now, I’d like to mention Hydrosphere as a Wave of Conviction alternative. You’ll lose 5% Lightning exposure but you’ll gain more flexibility with +cold and fire spell damage on wands, which for a SSF character for example could mean a big wand upgrade that would otherwise brick your WoC exposure. Check with PoB before swapping these to make sure you gaining damage and of course if your minimum lightning damage is > maximum fire and cold then keep using WoC for the extra 5%, the only goal is to have consistent exposure. For Malachai’s Artifice we still can’t use either without bricking EE and make sure we have no added lightning damage to spells on items or lightning spells being used other than mines, the damage increase is still worth it.

Thanks for putting so much effort in to this amazing guide, I face tanked a Sirus Die Beam on A8 was surprised he only took 50% of my ES. Keep up the excellent work.

Are you saying on the Wand we must not have Added Lights damage to Spells or is this only if u using Malachai’s Artifice

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casper3111 wrote:

Thanks for putting so much effort in to this amazing guide, I face tanked a Sirus Die Beam on A8 was surprised he only took 50% of my ES. Keep up the excellent work.

Are you saying on the Wand we must not have Added Lights damage to Spells or is this only if u using Malachai’s Artifice

Thanks, I’ve got a lot to add and improve soon!
Yes, only with EE we want to avoid things like Herald of Thunder (not an issue since the latest buff to Arctic Armor which is now amazing), Orb of Storms and added lightning damage to spells on items. I still think it’s not an ideal stat for BL in general because the 50% effectiveness of added damage but at least without EE you don’t have to outright avoid it.

E: PoBs and many parts of the guide updated. Only really need to tidy up the act quests and mapping sections but I’m burnt out after hours of edits, I’ll finish the rest soon.

E2: I was thinking tonight and I overlooked that Malachai’s Artifice only gives EE to the socketed spell so as long as we don’t have any sources of added lightning damage to spells (Herald of Thunder, items) we’re fine. This means we can still use WoC or Hydrosphere and Orb of Storms, which is great news because we get to keep our Onslaught provider, we have a way to automate curse application, and we get to keep exposure. This is another reason (along with the passives you save) to not pick up EE on the tree itself. Fixed mapping gem links. I need to test with PoB that EE + Conductivity beats Sniper’s Mark (both get exposure but we can’t automate mark application so we have to use a hex or self cast 3 different spells, brand/WoC or Hydrosphere/mark, which is extremely unideal) but I feel confident it’s better. The other option is self cast brand and mark and skip exposure.

Thanks to your guide I made it to No 1 on POE NINJA for Sabouter 1st time ever thanks man

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casper3111 wrote:

Thanks to your guide I made it to No 1 on POE NINJA for Sabouter 1st time ever thanks man

That’s insane man, congrats! Care to share what content you ran for level 100?

E: I’ve been pondering how to optimize Malachai’s Artifice for the red map setup and I had an interesting idea: Holy Flame Totem. We get the proper benefit of EE from the converted fire damage, we get consecrated ground from the totem itself (which also applies fucking curse immunity to you within the area), and we can still use arcanist brand to automate exposure and curse (which doesn’t have the hex requirement attached to it like with hextouch so we can use Sniper’s Mark). The only potential downside I can see with this is the totem has life and won’t adjust positioning like a brand but at level 20 it should be fairly tanky. Need to test if it feels clunky or not but the upsides are pretty massive. If anyone with Malachai’s Artifice would like to test it please feel free to share your experience. On another note, fucking hell has EE been a bitch to theory craft. It’s single handily responsible for the red map gem links changing like 5 times the past few days lmao.

E: initial PoB testing with minimal gear setup (doesn’t even have +1 Lightning spell wands) is showing very similar damage with Conductivity and Sniper’s Mark with -50 Lightning from EE and Hydrosphere exposure. In other words, either works fine from a damage perspective so I just need to figure out if the totem feels tanky enough and not clunky which would make it vastly superior for curse immunity and 6% regen on consecrated ground (with 4k life you’re going from ~400 life/s to ~650). Proper EE is putting damage per hit for BL from ~10k to ~17k for anyone thinking it’s not worth the trouble—it’s massive. You’d be approaching 2m DPS over 1.66 second windows with a full stack with literally self found items and a 1c ring to put it into context, and that’s a very conservative estimate with no flasks or Vaal Righteous Fire incorporation.