[3.25] Holy Flame Totem Scion -- League Starter -- HC / SSF viable

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Haattila wrote:

Should return proj works with HFT ?

Should work, but we got no official numbers on skills yet, so, we will have to see if it's usable or not.

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gui_orioli wrote:

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Haattila wrote:

Should return proj works with HFT ?

Should work, but we got no official numbers on skills yet, so, we will have to see if it's usable or not.

we have official number https://www.pathofexile.com/ancestor
if you scroll you can get spec on return proj and frigid bond (why those only those two i have no idea)

In theory it is a big boost of damage, but i'm not sure it workds with HFT because of infinite pierce

It might be possible to do something about it with snakepit or something to overwrite the 'pierce all target' modifier of the gem

We have official numbers for a lvl 1 gem. With these numbers, it's unclear if using it would grant more damage than current supports, and if it would be worth it to use sniper's mark instead of flammability for extra projectiles.

The pierce in HFT should work fine for it, we actually need the pierce to have the returning proj hit the same target again.

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gui_orioli wrote:

We have official numbers for a lvl 1 gem.

Sorry https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Returning_Projectiles_Support it's a 51% less on the return proj wich means a 50% more damage for the same projectile


About projectile interactions. From what i read upon collision a projectile will try different behavior depending on the entity which it collided with and its own definition, it'll do so in this order: split, pierce, fork, chain and then return.

So for a projectile to return it needs to be unable to split, pierce, fork and chain which is never the case with HFT except when it collides with an entity that doesn't allow piercing (only terrain but there might be more idk)

'Normal' projectiles 'die' because they are unable to do any of the five action. HFT and other 'fading' projectiles 'die' because they have no more lifespawn.

So normally for HFT you'd need enough projectile speed to hit terrain and return before dying.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Snakepit would make it possible to return on collision with an orb spell.

Honestly i'm doubting ancestral bond is even worth it in this kind of setup when bossing (allowing damage from both tornado and flamewall)

So, poewiki isn't official information, there's a chance these numbers are not as shown.

About the return, if I recall correctly, they changed it to return when the fly ends, but it's hard to test without it being in game. I tried snakepit in HFT and the chain visually worked, but the damage didn't, so I still assume snakepit doesn't work for HFT.

On tornado, it deals dmg even with ancestral bond. Flamewall doesn't, but the reason to use it is the added flat fire dmg to proj, it's damage isn't significant.

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gui_orioli wrote:

So, poewiki isn't official information, there's a chance these numbers are not as shown.

About the return, if I recall correctly, they changed it to return when the fly ends, but it's hard to test without it being in game. I tried snakepit in HFT and the chain visually worked, but the damage didn't, so I still assume snakepit doesn't work for HFT.

On tornado, it deals dmg even with ancestral bond. Flamewall doesn't, but the reason to use it is the added flat fire dmg to proj, it's damage isn't significant.

Tornado works partially, it reflects damage from totem but doesn't deals its base damage and i believe both can be scaled with a pseudo 6 link in your helmet bringing enough damage to compensate for a simple totem missing. But it's a more bossing option and needs enough investment to not hurt your mapping.



And in honesty i don't believe GGG's patchnote about ascendant chieftain

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Chieftain: No longer provides "40% increased Fire Damage", "Regenerate 2% of Life per second", or "1% of Damage dealt by your Totems is Leeched to you as Life." It now provides "Totems Taunt Enemies around them for 2 seconds when Summoned", "Unaffected by Ignite" and "10% increased Strength."

SO it means it should now have 20% strength increased which is unlikely. Meaning in all likelihood they forgot that it already has 10% str and it wouldn't be surprising if they also forgot it has covered in ash

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Haattila wrote:

And in honesty i don't believe GGG's patchnote about ascendant chieftain

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Chieftain: No longer provides "40% increased Fire Damage", "Regenerate 2% of Life per second", or "1% of Damage dealt by your Totems is Leeched to you as Life." It now provides "Totems Taunt Enemies around them for 2 seconds when Summoned", "Unaffected by Ignite" and "10% increased Strength."

SO it means it should now have 20% strength increased which is unlikely. Meaning in all likelihood they forgot that it already has 10% str and it wouldn't be surprising if they also forgot it has covered in ash

We got the official tree already, you can see it in poeplanner.com. We got 10% str, ignite immune, covered in ash and totem taunt.

Tatiantel2 (twitch.tv/tatiantel2) did some tests with returning proj using anomalous faster projectiles, and there's a chance HFT is bugged with returning projs (depending on projectile speed). We'll have to wait in-game testing with the new skill gem to see if it will be possible to use it.

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gui_orioli wrote:

Tatiantel2 (twitch.tv/tatiantel2) did some tests with returning proj using anomalous faster projectiles, and there's a chance HFT is bugged with returning projs (depending on projectile speed). We'll have to wait in-game testing with the new skill gem to see if it will be possible to use it.

Yeah i quickly watched your replay.


The question isn't really if it returns or not, HFT inherently cannot return because it'll always pierce and for a projectile to return it needs first and foremost to be unable to split fork pierce or chain.

And basically only terrain makes it unable to split fork pierce or chain (except for deadeye they can chain on terrain)



the idea was to use snakepit to remove the pierce all modifier (it would also works with other fading projectile)

And setup a fight like this :

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---T---B---O---
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T:totem B:Boss O:Orb (tornado in our case)


In our case with snakepit chaining Boss will be hit once then it'll chain to the orb and then it'll return.

The question here is: 'Does HFT anti shotgun mechanic render the boss immune to the returning projectile?'



Also in you VOD (precisely your clip) HFT where returning by hitting terrain (small wooden fence)

I'm not Tatiantel, so not my clips =P

There was a moment, when he had a lot of proj speed, in which projectiles were returning even when piercing and without hitting anything in the end. Technically this is how it should work, but it is probably bugged for lower proj speeds.

Again, snakepit makes HFT projs chain, but the damage doesn't work, so it simply doesn't work with HFT.