Why so much hate again Cosmetic MTX in D4?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Whether it's a movie my Sister-in-law saw, or book my nephew wanted to recommend and get my thoughts on, to a game that my buddies and I (who have been gaming as a group since 1995), want to play together. I just value that input exponentially more so than what's available on the web.

But if it works for people (which clearly it does or some of those folks wouldnt have jobs as influencers), then I guess more power to them. Perhaps I was a bit harsh in derideing the generational differences, but it just bothers me in general. Again I wish we could just get back to players playing without qualifiers on the rationale for doing (or not doing) so.

I guess it's actually that generational thing you brought up, just from the other direction. I don't know any younger folk anymore, just my own family and a few close friends. And we're all deep enough into our years and our ways that we know what we like, and what we don't. We've come to terms with our differences.

On the other hand, I've always been the black sheep of the family (politically, morally, financially...musically...creatively...completely) so I've been used to being content with what I like sans anyone else's approval for decades, heh. And with putting up with their banal shit for almost as long. As I've said elsewhere, I'm a child of Internet 1.0. We didn't have social media as some fucked up RL supplement or distortion -- we fled here to be alone, together. :)

I suppose that's also why I don't see anyone here as an enemy. Not even you-know-who. More like just contentious siblings in the same stupid pool, forced to co-exist until one or the other gets out. Or, as is the case for now, is forced out.

This can prove very confusing when I am suddenly congenial with someone who otherwise found our interactions volatile and fractious.

Anyway, I just turned 45. Pretty much officially on the other half of my life: a less healthy, less able, dumber, slower, more fragile half. Everyone goes through it to some degree, so I'm not pretending it's anything unique or profound. It's just a moment in which I no longer care quite so much what others think. They do say we become more conservative as we age, that or go insane trying to understand a changing world driven by forces that only made sense in that first half of an average lifespan. So if I do like some content creator, cool. If I do find most streaming culture reprehensible, equally cool. And so on.

And maybe it's not a generational thing. Maybe it's more personal than that. I dunno. The closeness of most families confuses me, but usually it's a lie one way or another. Sooner or later something cracks. Mine just got it over with relatively early. :)

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Although I don't actively read the DIV sub, posts from it sometimes make my feed thanks to The Algorithm. There are calls for the DIV subreddit mods to start actively moderating threads that whinge about DIV's financial model/cosmetic mtxes. I am conflicted here. I am all for free discussion of these things, but if they're gumming up the sub when people otherwise want to talk about other facets of the game, that's a problem. Maybe they should consider a stickied megathread and go from there. The mods said they're going to rely on the upvote/downvote system for now but I think they'll need a more active solution the closer they get to June.

One thing's for sure: you won't see DIV devs posting there very often.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

One thing's for sure: you won't see DIV devs posting there very often

Actually that brings up another point, one that I had considered making a thread about here in OT.

What exactly are they thinking at GGG, and what is the messaging going to look like with D4 barreling down? I mean they probably have around 90 days or so to finalize some plans before things get a little wonky.

It's going to be a very different feel moving into development cycles knowing that the player participation and feedback is going to be fractional of what they have grown accustomed to. It will be interesting in how they interpret the players that do remain, to what extent losses are expected, and what timeframe is a fair estimate to "hope" folks return?

Will they be upfront about this? I mean can they really not even acknowledge the elephant in the room? They did address Cyberpunk in the past, with a curious delay to avoid conflicts (citing financial impacts to a launch), I cannot fathom what that means as it relates to D4? Could they possibly even totally skip a league? I'm really not sure. 2023 is going to be super odd for PoE and GGG in general. All the more reason Exilecon a few weeks after D4 launch, to me, is bizarre. It's likely that will be taking place at the lowest point in the game in many years. That doesn't matter... I guess??

Lastly to your point about Dev communication, I actually think it's probably better that the D4 Dev's don't directly interact, at least not in live time. I think Dev Streams, Blogs, Polls, that kind of stuff is far more effective due to the buffers they create. Leveraging the community team will be important too.

To be honest on the GGG side, I think Bex should be far more involved than she is. I don't claim to know what she does day-in day-out, but comms in the next 6-9 months is going to be crucial (unless they have resolved themselves to this oncoming train and are focused on the cleanup only). A few tweets, a brief appearance on Reddit, and a mostly irrelevant news feed isn't going to cut it imo.

Of course it's better to present a front of 'this is what we're working on, please enjoy' rather than overdoing the comms -- actions speak louder than words, as they say. For an indie dev trying to develop a following and support, words *are* actions, but neither the GGG that is or the Blizzard that is trying to be again should be leaning too much into community interaction right now. Announcements from on high, curated and diplomatic, are far superior. Of course they come across as vapid and placatory IF there's nothing to announce, which is where Blizzard has this ridiculous advantage right now.

I don't think GGG will repeat the Cyberpunk incident. They're lucky how little egg on their face remained after that. People were too busy watching the yolk drip down CDPR's mug for months I guess. And I don't think GGG will try to compete with Blizzard, because they never openly have. All they had to do with D3 was keep on keeping on and let PoE speak for itself (or streamers like Kripp speak for it, more to the point). PoE competing with D3 was implicit; PoE '2' competing with DIV was never on the cards. All GGG could do was hope that Blizzard's internal strife and external controversies would keep DIV in production hell long enough to get PoE '2' out first. We humble gamers (should) like it when we read that Blizzard is unionising or dealing with its toxicity or otherwise crawling towards getting its shit together, but it's very, very bad news for GGG.

That's something of an elephant in the room to me. At no point were GGG ever truly the 'good guys' because they benefit, if not outright profit, from negative work culture and unpleasant conditions at other studios (and one in particular). It was fine when it was D3 because D3 represented everything wrong with Blizzard both inside and out. But DIV has a different energy behind it, with the ousting of some of the old guard, the all but explicit distancing from DI, the aforementioned unionising and glacial house-cleaning. IF DIV represents that first real step back to decency for Blizzard (IF), then it's a lot harder to cheer for its failure (probably the most obvious move for PoE stans) than it was for D3's.

But we all know that's a big if. I just think we should hope for it, given what it represents.

My beef with devs posting on reddit has nothing to do with communications though; it's purely down to reddit being specifically a platform for everyday people to vent their spleens, share jokes, discuss tips and tricks, and so on. In every single sub I either follow or simply 'see', the feeling is one of non-corporate interaction. A DIY reddit, for example, might have tradies in there but no explicit discussion by employees of construction material companies. Or an anime reddit might be full of filthy weebs rather than animators or composers or whatever. Outside of the PoE subreddit, my experience of reddit is one of almost sacred safety from corporate/professional influence. If a game is good, the gamers will say so. If a show is good, viewers will talk about it. So-called astroturfing and shilling is a constantly tapped insult. No one wants to be accused of it but if you post something too biased in the wrong sub, it's gonna happen.

It'd certainly happen in the PoE sub re: DIV, which is fine. It's a PoE sub, not a DIV one. The difference is the PoE redditors *know* GGG are watching and even interacting. The level of performance in that sub is off the charts for that reason alone. Whether they're fawning or chucking a collective tantrum, they are doing it not for each other, but for GGG. And it's disgusting.

That's why I said you won't see Blizzard devs in the DIV sub. A community manager or similar role will likely interact there, because, duh, it's a community. But much more than that is just unprofessional. Again, works for indies but we can all agree GGG haven't been indie for ages. Once you get to a certain level of success, you need to read the room and not act like you haven't. Sleep in the bed you made, especially when that bed is the envy of so many others. GGG as a business has been a miraculous success, a one in a million type situation. The ROI were astronomical.

A pity they couldn't leverage that into a new game, but again, that's down the F2P bed they made and the F2P-invested investors with whom they jumped into it. Where we see a tired old dehydrated cow, Tencent STILL only see how much milk is left. Anyone who thinks they give even a vague shit about the health of the cow, or about the long-term benefit of maybe nurturing a new one that might not produce milk for ages, is deluding themselves. Tencent DO have a long game, for sure, but not the same long game as any Exile would like. Tencent's long game, even in gaming alone, is one of acquisition and exploitation. Sure, they'll leave the devs alone (smart) but the entire vibe of any workplace shifts after a takeover, any takeover. Surely the hard-working elves at GGG know that their owners are much more interested in the longevity of huge shit like Fortnite, League of Legends, Peacekeeper Elite and Honor of Kings than their itty-bitty ARPG. Surely they know how easily Tencent can turn off the lights if they decide GGG are no longer an asset. The only comfort they have is that Tencent hasn't done much of that. Yet.

I don't think anyone at Tencent is particularly excited about 'Path of Exile 2'.

I'd argue Tencent would prefer the world realm struggle in order to rebrand and monetize it differently, more inline with their Chinese version.

That wont happen until after the 4.0 release. But it absolutely could happen if D4 stomps all over them, and PoE2 disappoints.

Whatever makes them the most money. The bottom line. Always.

I found it amusing when Tencent wised up to making Hollywood movies too overtly Chinese-aimed. They removed their branding from the opening credits. Reduced product placement. Cut back on the Chinese mainland superstar cameos. It was a surprising reading of the room, given how much money these movies were making in China.

They are...very flexible, for a Chinese megacorp.

But the game remains scoop up as many game assets as they can, big or small. 2022 was no exception. Their low-equity stake in Eleventh Hour Games was a great example of that.

Their branding, product placement, one-note actors, and everything else involved were removed from Western movies because they're no longer providing financial backing for them. Not nearly to the extent they were, at any rate. Same for Dalian Wanda and other players in the industry.

And it doesn't really have anything to do with reading the room. Not the one you seem to be thinking of at least.

To delve any further into it would be very much against the forum rules though... :D

Ah, interesting. I'll admit I didn't delve, because I guess I just wasn't that apt to suspect anything deeper and 'Tencent wising up' worked as a superficial explanation.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad it's over.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Ah, interesting. I'll admit I didn't delve, because I guess I just wasn't that apt to suspect anything deeper and 'Tencent wising up' worked as a superficial explanation.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad it's over.

Hollywood movies are still Hollywood movies. More of Hollywood wising up that China is a large market for Hollywood movies. American movies not only have to submitted to local censorship and audiences, but also foreign censorship and audiences.

Flattery is distasteful and embarrassing when not done discreetly. Much less done in lame and inappropriate manner.

Top Gun: Maverick tells an interesting story in that regard.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Top Gun: Maverick tells an interesting story in that regard.

Never watch it. Can't really say I had an inspirational moment here. Better explain it in a way a toddler understand.