[3.25] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Cjin wrote:

The curse effect reduction removed from the bosses is mostly negated by reduced base effect of curses and Hextouch getting 35% reduced cure effect.

For Frostbite before
-base value: 44
-boss reduction: -66%
-Hextouch reduction: 0%
-Hextouch quality bonus: +10%

For total of 44% effect, ends up with 19% reduced resistance value.

For Frostbite after
-base value: 36
-boss reduction: 0%
-Hextouch reduction: -35%%
-Hextouch quality bonus: 0%

For total of 65% effect, ends up with 23% reduced resistance value.

Elemental weakness has same stuff with base values of 39/30 and both getting additional 10% curse effect from gem quality. This ends up with total effect of

before: 21%
after: 22%

Not counting changes to the Whispers of Doom cluster, that probably means taking two 5% increased curse effect passives.

It's a 66% less and 10% increase, they're not additive. I don't think you can do the calculations this way.

Frostbite before :

44(base) X 0.34 (66% reduction) X 1.1 (10% increased effect) = 16.45% reduction.

The after gives the same result at 23%. We gain 7% reduction.

Elemental Weakness was :

44% (base at 20% quality) X 34% (66% reduction) X 1.1 (10% increased effect) = 16.45.

Now :

30% (base) X 0.65 (35% decrease) X 1.1 (new quality bonues 10% increase) = 21.45.

Increase of -5.

The two combined should bring the buff at 12% additionnal reduction, which is more than another Blanketed snow. My final build had a 6% DPS increase per Blanketed Snow, so I'd say that depending on the state of the build, we're talking 7-8% increase in DPS against Pinnacle bosses, assuming the new Whispers of Doom cluster does not have any bonus.

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WinterHiko wrote:

It's a 66% less and 10% increase, they're not additive. I don't think you can do the calculations this way.

Ye, for some reason I remembered that bosses had reduced curse effect, not less curse effect. And red the Hextouch change same way.

https://poeplanner.com/ has the new passive tree. Whispers of Doom wheel is garbage. You need 4 points to get WoD and only get 5% increased curse effect as benefit. Unless you go self cast curses.

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Graiaule wrote:

Well, 50% stun avoidance has been enough in practice from level 90-98 for me. And you get that with 4 passives. Just need to tweak the tree. We've been hurt worse than that before and survived.

I actually had Tolerance up before I switched to the cluster tree in 3.19.

No offense, but you and me do not play the same content, I usually take the build to the max, doing hard maps and all ubers early on. 95% stun avoidance is not enough and surely not 50% especially vs enemies with a lot of small hits that can stun you.

It was already a massive pain in the ass to get stun immunity on non-scion and now it's even more annoying. It's a big shame all our defensive layers are useless in the sanctum, seems to be a cannon glass league mechanic.

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Firestrike9 wrote:

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Graiaule wrote:

Well, 50% stun avoidance has been enough in practice from level 90-98 for me. And you get that with 4 passives. Just need to tweak the tree. We've been hurt worse than that before and survived.

I actually had Tolerance up before I switched to the cluster tree in 3.19.

No offense, but you and me do not play the same content, I usually take the build to the max, doing hard maps and all ubers early on. 95% stun avoidance is not enough and surely not 50% especially vs enemies with a lot of small hits that can stun you.

It was already a massive pain in the ass to get stun immunity on non-scion and now it's even more annoying. It's a big shame all our defensive layers are useless in the sanctum, seems to be a cannon glass league mechanic.

We're using Awakened Cast while Channeling to get stun complete immunity on map clear staff. The stun avoidance is for early in the league (before we have the budget) or during boss battles.

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Cjin wrote:

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WinterHiko wrote:

It's a 66% less and 10% increase, they're not additive. I don't think you can do the calculations this way.

Ye, for some reason I remembered that bosses had reduced curse effect, not less curse effect. And red the Hextouch change same way.

https://poeplanner.com/ has the new passive tree. Whispers of Doom wheel is garbage. You need 4 points to get WoD and only get 5% increased curse effect as benefit. Unless you go self cast curses.

Thanks for the link!

We get +5% curse effect, but -1 skill point. Not great, but not catastrophic. The two small passives were already garbage before (increased Doom and cast speed). It should give us (if my calculations are correct) an additionnal -1% res for each curse, so 2% total. There are better places to put a skill point than a 1% DPS increase, but worse too. Shouldn't be too bad.

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WinterHiko wrote:

Are you using Wave of conviction? I'm wondering where the two extra sockets come from.

Self-casting might bypass the curse reduction, but it'll require some time to cast twice, which is a DPS decrease in and of itself. Not sure if it's going to be worth it over the Ball Lightning setup, especially while mapping.

Also, what kind of madman doesn't put cyclone on RMB :P

1. Three sockets from removing cwdt-ball lightning-hextouch, then burning one for faster casting, leaving two. Per Cjin, one goes to unbound ailment, leaving one.

2. That's an interesting question and worth examining in detail. If we're already at the icestorm limit, then self-casting doesn't hurt dps. And even if we're not, the additional dps from self-casting may exceed the dps lost due to cast speed.

3. WinterHiko is correct, awakened CwC means no stuns during cyclone. Again, the 50% immunity I had did not cause any problems when bossing. Of course, I didn't do a lot of uber bosses, so I might be wrong.

4. My keyboard is set up perfectly for me. I hold down 1 and 2 for cyclone and vortex, use my LMB to move around, and when I need to move faster, I click my RMB to frostblink there. It's perfect. Try it! The only keys I am clicking are LMB, RMB, and 3 occasionally for frost shield.

I was just joking with the keybind. I'm so used to holding down RMB to walk with Cyclone and LMB to walk without that it seems so foreign to me to hold two buttons (mouse and KB) at the same time. My dash skill is set to W.

Makes sense for the socket count, I forgot about that.

I haven't done the calculations, but I have to say, the loss of quality of life from having to time our curses in between specific cast animations doesn't seem worth it, especially since unless we delete bosses in under a second, we can hardly keep max storms on them. Realistically, we get 2-3 storms consistently between boss movement.

My gut feeling is that even with Faster Casting, you might end up losing a full second of DPS buildup, since you need to cast two curses. Add to that the risk of human error (hitting the key too fast and overriding the other command or hitting it too late and losing some cast speed) and it just doesn't seem appealing to me.

Maybe the calculations will prove me wrong!

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WinterHiko wrote:

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Firestrike9 wrote:

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Graiaule wrote:

Well, 50% stun avoidance has been enough in practice from level 90-98 for me. And you get that with 4 passives. Just need to tweak the tree. We've been hurt worse than that before and survived.

I actually had Tolerance up before I switched to the cluster tree in 3.19.

No offense, but you and me do not play the same content, I usually take the build to the max, doing hard maps and all ubers early on. 95% stun avoidance is not enough and surely not 50% especially vs enemies with a lot of small hits that can stun you.

It was already a massive pain in the ass to get stun immunity on non-scion and now it's even more annoying. It's a big shame all our defensive layers are useless in the sanctum, seems to be a cannon glass league mechanic.

We're using Awakened Cast while Channeling to get stun complete immunity on map clear staff. The stun avoidance is for early in the league (before we have the budget) or during boss battles.

awakened cwc does not help vs bosses, the tolerance cluster is a waste of points and also messes up with the split personality path

Tolerance is just while we're getting other avoidance. It's not viable, considering the split personnality path.

I've been running with 22% avoidance for quite a while and have never noticed any problem during bossing. There aren't any bunch of hits with only one enemy around, it's quite fine.

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Tolerance is certainly viable -- check the pastebin I posted. Dps dropped a little bit for the cluster tree.

Maybe we should investigate just how badly the top bosses and uber bosses actually do stun. I agree I'd rather not spend the 4 passives. Maybe just a glove craft is enough.