Yeah. We need an auction house.

So I just sold a Red Dream for 20 Chaos... ... And it didn't feel right.

It got snatched up THE INSTANT I put the price on it after looking it up. I'm pretty sure a bot grabbed it, and I'm pretty sure the lowest ~5 trades are fake trade lots that ignore all PM's and make the item look cheaper than it is.

So I want to ask... WHY, again, don't we have an auction house??? You DO realize that would force NATURAL prices for items, right? Including currency. And you wouldn't have all these bots spending 24 hours a day flipping the same currencies for each other, and you wouldn't have fake price manipulations because those items would ACTUALLY get bought for the fake listing price.




Every time this discussion comes up, people get SO ZEALOUS about NOT having an auction house, but they NEVER have an actual argument. It's always just the same fallacy, "Blah blah blah, D3 had an auction house, also some people didn't like D3, PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER, AND IT IS DIRECT CAUSATION!"

This game should have had an auction house 39 years ago. And don't even give me that INSANE "player interaction" argument.




I know it's not ever going to be added. But just know that you're all wrong for it.

The auction house actually gives bot software a greater advantage.

Then please elaborate, because I disagree and can explain why. However, since you gave the prompt first, it's on you to explain it so that I may then respond appropriately.

thats your own fault. when you get instant message spammed you'e priced too low. i put a shield for 1 divine that was worth 8+ because it had full rolls which i didn't notice.

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BearODactyl88#5214 wrote:

thats your own fault. when you get instant message spammed you'e priced too low. i put a shield for 1 divine that was worth 8+ because it had full rolls which i didn't notice.

Okay, but you see how this mentality isn't helpful or healthy? "I should have known" because it was PM'd on too quickly?

And I DID realize immediately, but I think I only lost maybeeee ~60 Chaos, so I didn't care enough. The broader problem is the focus here.

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ZEKEOO#9170 wrote:

The auction house actually gives bot software a greater advantage.

I'm going to respond anyway, because I'm not sure if you've abandoned the thread.

My assumption of your argument is along the lines of: "With an auction house, bots can instantly grab things with no competition."

That sounds all well & good at first. But if you stop and think about it, you'll see that it has no merit. So let's run it down.

Counter-point #1:

Okay, they snatch an item up real quick... ... ... Now what? That bot just spent currency for an item that has a reinforced price. They aren't going to be able to flip it, because its value has been determined by the ability to automatically purchase anything that's listed at X price. Nobody can make something appear cheaper than it is. Things can only become overpriced, and since we see the amount of time an item has been listed for, they can only try to make it look like a fresh listing, which has virtually no manipulative effect whatsoever.

So keep running it down. Keep thinking about what's next.

Now what? This bot is spending all this currency on these items, snatching them up quickly, but for no profit. If it's such a common item, those items will keep popping up. It will be a losing battle for the bot(s).

But if it IS a rare and valuable item... well, then that price will reflect based on what people will or will not pay for it. Even if the bot is going to buy out the whole market, the buyers are in control of the price, because they decide what they will or will not pay for it.

But this also touches up on my next point...

Counter-point #2:

In regards to BUYING an item, what difference does it make whether the buyer is a bot or a player? If a PLAYER wants to buy out the market and resell things for inflated prices... they will run into the same obstacles a bot would. Supply and demand would dictate whether or not they're successful.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that, with a non-auction-house environment, the ONLY "line of defense" versus a bot buying out a market is whether or not sellers are AFK.

Say that again, but now out loud:

The only line of defense with our current system is whether or not a player is AFK.

... Isn't that crazy?

Your whole stance on not having an auction house is based on the premise that AFK players are single-handedly holding the line against bot control.

If saying it out loud doesn't explain to you how ludicrous it is, then there just may not be any convincing you. On the bright side, I don't need to convince you; any logical person knows that an auction house would make the game better, with no downside.

An Auction House would be meaningless. Trading off of here is good enough and Faustus makes currency trading just as convenient as a Auction House. If they keep gold out of Standard League, then maybe an Auction House would be necessary to keep players happy. Until then it's pointless.

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scottslayer#6428 wrote:

An Auction House would be meaningless. Trading off of here is good enough and Faustus makes currency trading just as convenient as a Auction House. If they keep gold out of Standard League, then maybe an Auction House would be necessary to keep players happy. Until then it's pointless.

The positive it would bring would be - other than what I already described in here with market manipulation - not having to PM twenty AFK people before someone actually responds.

Not only that, but perhaps an even greater positive: You could buy things off people that aren't playing your League. ALL of those expired League items going to Standard, and nobody delisting things, nobody swapping to Standard to trade, etc.




Please... How many GOOD things do I need to list, while waiting for A SINGLE bad thing to be listed, before the general PoE populace wakes up and gets onboard?

How many years, lol...

I'm confused. You listed an item for a price, and someone according to you instantly nabbed it? Because that means you got a whisper, invited the person, you both opened trade, put in items, hovered over the items and then hit accept. You're now regretting that trade because you think you could have gotten more.

And somehow an auction house would solve this? Because the only issue was that you didn't do your research on the item and just listed it for the same price some others had it listed.

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Bleu42#4018 wrote:

I'm confused. You listed an item for a price, and someone according to you instantly nabbed it? Because that means you got a whisper, invited the person, you both opened trade, put in items, hovered over the items and then hit accept. You're now regretting that trade because you think you could have gotten more.

And somehow an auction house would solve this? Because the only issue was that you didn't do your research on the item and just listed it for the same price some others had it listed.

[Removed by Support]

Obviously, my point was that it was nabbed from me so fast, that the odds of it being a human player that typed "The Red Dream" and hit search on the same frame that I submitted my pricing for it, is so slim that you'd have to be lying to yourself to believe it was a human player.

That's step 1.

Now we move on to step 2: Combining this with my experience in trading, knowing that you often start from the cheapest listing, get no responses as you work your way up, then OF COURSE by the time you've started at 5 Chaos but slowly worked up to 1+ Divine listings, what a surprise that the 1+ Divines are the ones that actually respond and invite you to parties. This is WITH the "Online In League" option selected.

And so, once we combine Step 1 and Step 2 together... it becomes easy to see that, when I priced my item at 20 Chaos based on the cheapest 5 items, I was obviously manipulated by false listings that have no intention of responding to people, but are being listed as bait for the exact situation that happened here. They will buy that with a bot for 20 Chaos, and relist it for 90 Chaos and sell to people that - as we've established - start PM'ing people with low listings, then work their way up to the ACTUAL price of the item, 90 Chaos.

[Removed by Support]

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

"

Bleu42#4018 wrote:

I'm confused. You listed an item for a price, and someone according to you instantly nabbed it? Because that means you got a whisper, invited the person, you both opened trade, put in items, hovered over the items and then hit accept. You're now regretting that trade because you think you could have gotten more.

And somehow an auction house would solve this? Because the only issue was that you didn't do your research on the item and just listed it for the same price some others had it listed.

[Removed by Support]

Obviously, my point was that it was nabbed from me so fast, that the odds of it being a human player that typed "The Red Dream" and hit search on the same frame that I submitted my pricing for it, is so slim that you'd have to be lying to yourself to believe it was a human player.

That's step 1.

Now we move on to step 2: Combining this with my experience in trading, knowing that you often start from the cheapest listing, get no responses as you work your way up, then OF COURSE by the time you've started at 5 Chaos but slowly worked up to 1+ Divine listings, what a surprise that the 1+ Divines are the ones that actually respond and invite you to parties. This is WITH the "Online In League" option selected.

And so, once we combine Step 1 and Step 2 together... it becomes easy to see that, when I priced my item at 20 Chaos based on the cheapest 5 items, I was obviously manipulated by false listings that have no intention of responding to people, but are being listed as bait for the exact situation that happened here. They will buy that with a bot for 20 Chaos, and relist it for 90 Chaos and sell to people that - as we've established - start PM'ing people with low listings, then work their way up to the ACTUAL price of the item, 90 Chaos.

[Removed by Support]

[Removed by Support] Pretty simple, you didn't do your research on an item you listed. YOU had to invite the person to trade, YOU had to initiate trade, YOU had to put your item in the trade window, YOU had to hover over both your item and the offer and finally YOU had to hit accept. It quite literally doesn't matter if someone had a live search set up or it was a bot, that's immaterial to the discussion.