Hot take: PoE2 community is way too harsh on GGG

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Grymoire#4391 wrote:

People bothered enough to post on here to complain are gonna be the most unhinged, yeah. Does blow my mind too though

Absolute man children that cry when their treats don't taste how they want them, its pretty sad

We're brought up to believe we're these righteous consumers, that anything you pay a cent for (or even if its free and you spend your time instead), you as the customer is owed some sort of blood price

GGG's transparency seems to have a counterintuitive effect that emboldens people to also be transparent about how angry they are

Totally agree, I reckon the fact that they are that transparent and reactive makes them weak in front of their community but that transparency is due to the paid EA. They need the money, they need return on investment to build resources to make their game. In return, they give us what they can as a "small" dev team, a nice forum where we can solve the issues together.

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Hendel#1528 wrote:

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WineMule#4523 wrote:

I know there’s some reality to some degree on some of the criticisms but yeah, I find the community way too harsh on the devs. You all know it’s an early access right?
For context, I played Warrior and yeah there’s problems. But it’s an early access what were you expecting?

I’d love to hear your take on it.

It's early access so we're giving feedback. I don't know if it's too harsh or not.
And people also paid for early access, and when people pay for something they expect a certain level of quality, EA or not.

I'm mixed on your response, we can absolutely make feedbacks on the game BECAUSE it's EA and we will (because we've been given the opportunity to) give feedback on the game when it'll be released. Have you read the forum lately, it's just mean after mean for no reason and I beg your pardon for this excuse again, but it's not Blizzard that is developing this video game, it's a "small" team and it seems that a lot of active members of this community tends to overlook this aspect.
Yes we've paid, but we've paid for almost nothing, it's an EA, it's some sort of a bet. We mustn't expect a certain level of quality, we just trust the devs or not. Why won't we trust them after this amazing game that was PoE1?
Maybe I'm stupid for thinking that, maybe I'm not, only time will tell.

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yummysushipjs#7638 wrote:

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KingRajesh#0213 wrote:

It's been three months and the devs haven't done anything.

D4 will have launched their own season and a mid-season patch, along with other events, in less than half the time.

GGG should be roasted for the poor job they've done so far.

D4 is closing in on two years on the market.

POE2 is barely 3 months on the market.

And i was there for the first 6 months of D4, it was in an even worse state than POE 2 comparatively.

Also, Blizard is a multi-billion dollar corporation with far more resources than GGG.

In the end it sounds like you prefer playing D4, so you should go and do that.

GGG have had 10 years of background knowledge and integrated systems they have an entire game to draw from and pick and choose content, not to mention the 6 years its been in development.

Luck they are just a small INDY studio...right ?

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Grymoire#4391 wrote:

People bothered enough to post on here to complain are gonna be the most unhinged, yeah. Does blow my mind too though

Absolute man children that cry when their treats don't taste how they want them, its pretty sad

We're brought up to believe we're these righteous consumers, that anything you pay a cent for (or even if its free and you spend your time instead), you as the customer is owed some sort of blood price

GGG's transparency seems to have a counterintuitive effect that emboldens people to also be transparent about how angry they are

Well the problem is if you've been playing for YEARS, you have seen GGG lie again, and again, and again, about almost every single thing they have to say. They stress that they want feedback, and whenever we give it they just used to say (in manifestos, RIP) "Hey were right, you're wrong, get fucked about it". Now it's just pure silence, because we've caught them in so many lies we aren't giving them a pass anymore.

It's crazy how much this company lies to their consumers. I've never seen game companies repetitively lie about almost everything like this... it's totally encompassing.

For example, Ruthless mode literally had a few big sweeping changes made to POE 1, multiple times -- and AFTER THE FACT... they told us "Ruthless will never effect POE 1 base game" only for them to admit it already has several times and they just lied completely for zero reason.

I'd be stoked with anything they have to say if I could count on it. But I can't. Just remember, POE 2 was just supposed to be POE 1 version 4.0 -- New story, same exact game in every single other respect... yeah that was a lie too lol

The community is not harsh enough.

If we do not express how displeased we are then GGG will just continue to treat us this way.

This is disgusting behavior for a company.

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WineMule#4523 wrote:

I know there’s some reality to some degree on some of the criticisms but yeah, I find the community way too harsh on the devs. You all know it’s an early access right?
For context, I played Warrior and yeah there’s problems. But it’s an early access what were you expecting?

I’d love to hear your take on it.

i make it simple: its litteraly the diablo crowd that joined for the hype, got hooked because its better than diablo, but they want it the way they want it, they think ggg gives in like blizzard did with all theyre games, if you go and check out old poe1 posts, especialy pre and post league launches, and you can see what i mean, hardcore poe fans are vocale too, but they are also reasonable

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WineMule#4523 wrote:

I know there’s some reality to some degree on some of the criticisms but yeah, I find the community way too harsh on the devs. You all know it’s an early access right?
For context, I played Warrior and yeah there’s problems. But it’s an early access what were you expecting?

I’d love to hear your take on it.

If this was a new project, you'd be absolutely correct. But poe2 copies 90% of designs from poe1, which is running for 10 years and community feedback is well known across the board.

The rest 10% are player power and agency nerfs GGG had long wanted to push but couldn't do it in poe1 frame. Like removing crafting bench, removing a number of basic crafting currencies, removing a number of league content crafting, limiting maps to 1 death, removing player choice of map layouts (atlas now chooses for you), reducing choice of support gems (no duplicates), axing movement skills, axing many advanced item modifiers, and so on.

People are pissed because every long time player knows GGG never listens to non-streamer feedback and what we have now is already the final form design-wise. Numbers will get tuned each major patch, but the Vision of "slow unrewarding progression, lots of RNG penalties, and QoL from 1999" is set in stone.

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WineMule#4523 wrote:

I know there’s some reality to some degree on some of the criticisms but yeah, I find the community way too harsh on the devs. You all know it’s an early access right?
For context, I played Warrior and yeah there’s problems. But it’s an early access what were you expecting?

I’d love to hear your take on it.

No.

I can accept to pay for early access. I'd rather not, since I'm effectively beta testing your game for you, but I understand the economic incentive here.

But if this was truly early access, we'd have:

* No time restricted leagues
* Free access to full respecs at all time
* A path to free and unrestricted access to all forms of content (parallel to regular game-play)
* Active forum community managers talking to people giving feedback and facilitating a communication with the developers directly
* Active changes based on community feedback on a regular basis, even live-tweaking numbers
* Non-hidden roadmap laid out months in advance, so that the community as a whole can react to upcoming features and give feedback on overall coherence

We have exactly none of that. As a matter of fact, we have mostly the exact opposite of what I wrote above, which only leads to one conclusion: This game is released.

A lack of features and overall bad game design quality does not equal a game being in "early access", despite what they want to write on their marketing materials and steam page