A Simple Poll - Exp Loss on Death

"

dreamstate42#3955 wrote:

- Why does it make the ladder anymore meaningful? And why do ALL players have to suffer for the tiny percentage in the ladders?

Are you listening to yourself?

That's the same as asking "Why are national soccer teams so hard to get into? Why should all hobby soccer players suffer and be excluded from the World Cup, just for the sake of a few pro-athletes?"

Dude... leveling past 90 is optional. It's not required for any content in the game. If you can't or don't want to face the challenge, just don't do the challenge. But stop trying to ruin it for the people who enjoy it.

"

dreamstate42#3955 wrote:

"

DarKWolF90#6544 wrote:

The goals are as follows, pretty evident and no need for any GGG to say so:


- Ladder being actually meaningful
- Punishing you for not building properly
- Deter you from facing content you're not geared for
- Omens economy
- Races and avoiding exploitation in races
- Get you to learn the game instead of expecting to faceroll and deathroll everything

If it's that evident, it wouldn't be so heavily contested. But if you are so knowledgable in GGGs stead:

- Why does it make the ladder anymore meaningful? And why do ALL players have to suffer for the tiny percentage in the ladders?
- Dying is already punishment in and of itself. Why add insult to injury?
- How is that a deterrent? Does the game give you any indicators on how to know what the content is you're supposed to do (and before the typical copout answer comes rolling around: the GAME, not 3rd party content)?
- So for the economy of one item type to work EVERYONE gets disadvantaged? Sounds like a massive design flaw to me...
- Once again, everyone has to accept punishment because otherwise a tiny percentage of players might not feel accomplished?
- So, how does the game teach you here exactly? This specific "reason" is mentioned so often as if it's self-evident, but it means absolutely nothing. It's a placeholder argument.

Just another bunch of assertions presented as self-evident "reasons" that lack any kind of actual substance, and is just another list of regurgitated nonsense. The amount of projections in responses like this is mind-boggling, because everyone would abuse the system the same way you would if death penalties wouldn't be in place, right?

At this point the only "self-evident" thing for me is that a vast majority of "death penalty defenders" want the game to protect them from themselves and the way they would abuse the system if the game just would let them, so they made that vice a virtue and pretend there is some deeper meaning to an archaic game design choice...

I'll go one by one


- Because otherwise you can be a bot to 100 and tie for first place. Other players don't need to suffer, they need to understand that they're looking at max level from a different game's perspective. Lvl 100 is not mandatory to do the hardest content in the game. If your build needs lvl100 to function you're building wrong.

- What punishment would you be suffering without XP loss at high levels? 5 ex in juicing and a map node? We need to be having real discussions here, not theoretical ones. Would you even think your build has issues and solve them or would you just power through anyway with a subpar build and bad gameplay? There is no REAL punishment outside of xp loss.

- Yes. The game does tell you. Through map mods, through your atlas passives, through your chracter stat sheet, through the DPS you're doing and the damage you're taking, through the boss difficulty you're choosing. The control is 100% yours.

- No, only ONE of the omens is there to mitigate XP loss. Nobody is at a disadvantage, rather than he who knows the existence of the item gets rewarded with an advantage as a knowledge check over those who won't read and delve deeper into the game's mechanics. Which is not only fair, but mandatory in any game with knowledge checks of any kind.

Omen economy doesn't revolve around ameliorations, rather than the better ones. But it is part of the economy and taken into account when balancing, that's why they were made more common.

- You telling me you don't ask yourself how you died when you die and what you can do to mitigate it next time? No wonder you can't fathom this argument at all.



You can find these "self assertions" being only paraphrases of what the devs have already stated in their interviews and streams. It's about listening, not about being "knowledgeable"

"

dreamstate42#3955 wrote:

At this point the only "self-evident" thing for me is that a vast majority of "death penalty defenders" want the game to protect them from themselves and the way they would abuse the system if the game just would let them, so they made that vice a virtue and pretend there is some deeper meaning to an archaic game design choice...

Also this is completely backwards.

What I don't want is people skillessly boosting to 100 if i'm competing for ladder. Which is one of the main problems with D4 btw.


I also don't want people dying 10 times per hour getting the same rewards as people who don't die at all.

/thread

"

thaHatred#2109 wrote:

What is the point of having an experience loss when you die anyway ?

Like, I want GGG to come out and say why they feel like it is important and essential to the game to have this feature.

Because I don't see the goal it's trying to achieve.

dude wtf 300 hours is 12,5 day ingame counter? i’m lvl 95 and have 100+ hours

+1

"

DarKWolF90#6544 wrote:

"

thaHatred#2109 wrote:

What is the point of having an experience loss when you die anyway ?

Like, I want GGG to come out and say why they feel like it is important and essential to the game to have this feature.

Because I don't see the goal it's trying to achieve.

The goals are as follows, pretty evident and no need for any GGG to say so:


- Ladder being actually meaningful
- Punishing you for not building properly
- Deter you from facing content you're not geared for
- Omens economy
- Races and avoiding exploitation in races
- Get you to learn the game instead of expecting to faceroll and deathroll everything

A lots of players just do 1-96/97 and pay for the last 3 levels. XP loss is only good for people selling services.

"

Renko1985#7687 wrote:

+1

"

DarKWolF90#6544 wrote:

"

thaHatred#2109 wrote:

What is the point of having an experience loss when you die anyway ?

Like, I want GGG to come out and say why they feel like it is important and essential to the game to have this feature.

Because I don't see the goal it's trying to achieve.

The goals are as follows, pretty evident and no need for any GGG to say so:


- Ladder being actually meaningful
- Punishing you for not building properly
- Deter you from facing content you're not geared for
- Omens economy
- Races and avoiding exploitation in races
- Get you to learn the game instead of expecting to faceroll and deathroll everything

A lots of players just do 1-96/97 and pay for the last 3 levels. XP loss is only good for people selling services.

By lots... you mean like three people? 99% of the player base does not care about level 100.

"

DarKWolF90#6544 wrote:

What I don't want is people skillessly boosting to 100 if i'm competing for ladder. Which is one of the main problems with D4 btw.


I also don't want people dying 10 times per hour getting the same rewards as people who don't die at all.

/thread

I don't really care if we have exp loss or not, but your argument here doesn't make sense.

In order to make reliable profit (rewards) and progress, you have to juice maps. The more you juice, the less revives you get. You simply can't get the same rewards as people that don't die if you die all the time. Please tell me what rewards someone gets if they die 10 times an hour, and whether you think they're gaining or losing currency if they run the same juiced maps as someone that doesn't die at all.
Someone that dies all the time will not gain exp and they will drain their currency attempting to faceroll through maps.

Regarding the ladder, if ggg made exp loss optional then opting out of it could also exclude you from the ladder, so only the people that opted in for exp loss could compete to be on it.

+1

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

Just type +1 if you want it deleted/made optional in the settings. No need for arguing or discussions, we all know why we want it to change and its been explained a million times now.

Let's just give GGG some stats on what their playerbase really wants.

+1 but I think a sharp reduction in percentage loss is fine. Like 2.5% or 5%.

+1