How to FIX the XP Penalty

IMO the penalty is WAY too harsh especially since so many one shot mechanics exist.

Here is how I would change it, keeping the fundamental concept while at the same time lessening the impact of one shots:

1. At any level the first death against a boss or Pinnacle Boss or Map does NOT have any XP penalty. Or you could make it so that you start the content with the equivalent of an Amelioration so that it would be 1-3% at high levels for first death.

2. Second death is 50% of the max value and Ameliorations would be consumed

3. Third is normal penalty.

4. To really discourage dying through content you could make 5th and 6th Portal as 150% of the penalty but I think just the first three would keep the penalty but make it way more fair. If I did I can then skip that content, if I press on I risk the XP.

Give the players agency.

If you're dying a lot it's probably time to figure out why and focus on improving your character accordingly, rather than coming up with hundred new ways to "fix" something that isn't broken.

So I'd like some clarification: when you say "since so many oneshot mechanics exist" are we talking about things like rare monsters with high burst damage in juiced T16/T17 maps? Or are we talking about telegraphs which are intended to be oneshots (Maven's memory game, etc)?

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

So I'd like some clarification: when you say "since so many oneshot mechanics exist" are we talking about things like rare monsters with high burst damage in juiced T16/T17 maps? Or are we talking about telegraphs which are intended to be oneshots (Maven's memory game, etc)?

Yes the random one shots in juiced t16 and t17 maps, not the mechanics we should be able to avoid/account for in Pinnacle bosses. Like if you dont stand in the circles for Eater of Worlds that is on you.

A game where u can only win is not a game.

The only thing I could get on board with would be the green invitations for eater/exarch not having xp penalties. That would be handy for beginner players. Although if they're around lvl 88-92 the xp penalty is barely felt anyways so its really not that big of a difference.

The rest of it belongs. If this content can be cleared in hc to an avg player then it should be doable on sc, you just need defense. There are very few combinations outside of mobs like revanants and cannibals with stupid mods that will 1 hit you. Assuming you aren't running -max res + no recovery or multiproj type stuff. If you don't want to die to this kind of stuff roll your maps with a hc mindset until your defense is in order.

It's really hard to take these complaints seriously when the (softcore) XP penalty is as completely toothless as it currently is. I don't think it matters AT ALL to characters below level 95, at least not in the sense of impacting player behavior. You can literally die in every single map and still hit level 90, which tells me that the penalty is not nearly as strict as it should be.

And there is some validity to the complaint that it takes so long to get from level 98 to 99 that a "random" death can feel really bad, but when you back up and say that sentence out loud it becomes clear that the issue isn't the death or the penalty, it's that players can reach level 98 in the first place without ever actually learning the game's mechanics.

Could we stop pretending that "learning game mechanics" prevents you from randomly dying every now and then during mapping? If you go heavy on juice and aren't super careful about map mods it's just a matter of time before some mod combination or the sheer amount of hits kills you. Streamers wouldn't rip their HC characters multiple times per league if dying was purely a skill issue.

I guess you can try to make it to 100 in blue maps with no juice but i don't even want to think about how many maps it would take. Even when juicing with breach and harbinger it still took me roughly 100 maps to get from 99 to 100.

That said, i don't think the proposed changes would do much good. And with the omen that almost nullifies the penalty i honestly don't think changes to the penalty are necessary at this point. Anyone can make it to 95 by either building a halfway decent character and/or being really careful with the map mods they run. People who aim to make it to 100 can be expected to be good enough to afford a few omens to compensate for bad luck along the way.

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Baharoth15#0429 wrote:

Could we stop pretending that "learning game mechanics" prevents you from randomly dying every now and then during mapping?

Could you stop using straw men instead of engaging with the argument? At NO POINT did I say that "learning game mechanics" means you will never, ever die.

Rather, I said the exact same thing you said in your reply: that you'll die so rarely that you'll very easily make it to level 98+, and that you can reach level 90 even without learning the game's mechanics because the penalty isn't harsh enough.

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Baharoth15#0429 wrote:

Could we stop pretending that "learning game mechanics" prevents you from randomly dying every now and then during mapping? If you go heavy on juice...

Can we stop pretending that deep game knowledge, a good build and good items don't reduce the "randomly dying" to a minimum?

I've leveled to 100 without problems for the last 5 leagues, I think - by playing pretty juiced maps (no 5-way BS, carries or anything like that - and I'm FAR from a "good" player). And who the hell goes "heavy on the juice" if they're trying to level?

I mean, if we want a game where decisions matter, planning matters and knowledge pays off, we need to be able to "not win" all the time. I'm all for a death penalty, because IMO it rewards game knowledge, planning and making "the right decisions". Level 100 is something you should want, and if you really want something aspirational that isn't required at all, the game shouldn't just give it to you.

Is the penalty perfect? No. But it does serve a purpose. I don't really want a game where you can "lose" your way to max level, and where everything gets balanced around everyone being level 100. Because without a penalty, make no mistake; 'most' people will be level 100.