Popular Opinion: In 3.28 League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I’m sorry that it makes you sad that we ask for challenges to be what they are called, to make the game more fun for us.

to summarize, people like you would actively want to make the game experience WORSE for other players to benefit yourself.

and that is what i feel is sad. and there are a number of vocal people who are like you.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

The game can’t cater to every type of player

agreed, and the fact is, its more beneficial financially for ggg NOT to cater to players like you.

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

We're asking "number go up" but with meaningful content instead.

i agree with you, i too want meaningful challenges which require actual skill /mastery.

hence why i proposed new challenges that give alt art as rewards. it does not take away from what existing players have, and instead give something for real challenge enjoyers to go after.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

agreed, and the fact is, its more beneficial financially for ggg NOT to cater to players like you.

I'm definitely going to need you to provide a source for this claim, otherwise it's definitely not a fact.

Also, who says GGG even want to maximize their profits at the expense of what makes the game better? All evidence would suggest the exact opposite; there are plenty of people with zero impulse control who would happily pay real world money for things like campaign skips, and yet somehow those remain not in the game.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

I'm definitely going to need you to provide a source for this claim, otherwise it's definitely not a fact.

Also, who says GGG even want to maximize their profits at the expense of what makes the game better? All evidence would suggest the exact opposite; there are plenty of people with zero impulse control who would happily pay real world money for things like campaign skips, and yet somehow those remain not in the game.

i was going to write a whole lot about this but then i figured. nah. if you cant see how alienating a portion of the player base equates to less revenues, nothing i say can convince you otherwise.

as for the zero impulse players who pay real money while not playing the game.

thats kind of a worthless point. they would spend money on the game regardless.

your point is true but doesnt bring any value to the conversation. i m arguing that we should want as much water as possible from all water sources and your point is akin saying it raining anyway so we dont need all water sources.

in fact, "all evidence suggesting the exact opposite" is such a weird thing to say. you asking me for evidence to back my facts while you come in without evidence yourself. even if you somehow had internal ggg sales data, theres no way you can determine that a player spent money for x reason.

how different is your evidence from my "facts". we dont have a "i m buying this supporter pack because i like this league" checkbox on our purchases. and the fact people buy things during a certain league has no concrete co relation to the league either. sometimes i WANT a cool mtx, but i m short on cash and get it way later.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

agreed, and the fact is, its more beneficial financially for ggg NOT to cater to players like you.

If you look at over a decade of GGG’s history, their design philosophy and the way they operate clearly hint at the audience they’re aiming for, it’s definitely not the casual crowd. Otherwise, gameplay would have trended more toward something like Diablo 4. Even PoE2 shows they have no intention of targeting the low-end casual audience.
Their marketing, supporter packs, and MTX pricing make it obvious, if they were chasing casuals, MTX would be priced for mere pennies. We’d be seeing things like purchasable campaign skips, instant level-ups, and all the other fluff that mobile games or Diablo Immortal use to milk casuals. Heck, we’d even see a “Pay not to lose EXP” box as a third option upon death.

I count myself among the audience they’re targeting, active, engaged players who stick around and spend, not those who start a league, find a hundred complaints, quit in week two because there’s “nothing to do”, “game too hard” and then demand changes. Most of what these players complain about, experience penalties, loot, overtuned mechanics, etc., rarely affects the dedicated, engaged players because things are generally fine in practice.

If GGG had aimed for a Diablo 4–style casual experience from the very beginning, before D4 even existed, the game would probably have only survived a couple of patches before going under due to lack of players, low interest, and insufficient funds. It’s the way the game is actually designed and the audience it’s aimed at that allowed it to grow. Not being fully casual-friendly is exactly what made players pick it up, stick with it, and enjoy it.

Reworking the challenge system would be a great way to boost league retention, because fun, challenging and meaningful content is what actually keeps invested players engaged. The system should be updated even if it annoys a few casuals who may or may not quit. After all, it’s the dedicated, engaged players who sustain the game’s growth and keep it thriving, both in community and financially.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

If you look at over a decade of GGG’s history, their design philosophy and the way they operate clearly hint at the audience they’re aiming for, it’s definitely not the casual crowd.

i dont have the numbers but i do find your analysis sound.

the game content is definitely catering to the top of the top players.

now think about this. WHO are the challenge rewards made for?

initially leagues were meant to be a nice way to get players to test new content. but later ggg realized they found a way to make players keep coming back.

a lot of STD purists like myself started playing league because the challenge rewards were so enticing. and i was a weak player. my build was shit. i got stuck at level 83 for the longest time. then 90. then 95. now i can casually get to 100. but back then i was weak.

if back then ggg made the rewards solo only. i can tell you 100% without doubt. i would probably skip the league.

you have the insight to see how the game was developed.

now apply that same insight to see how the game is marketed. the choice to even give mtx rewards was a calculated choice made by ggg to get more players to play the game every league launch. they were even stingy back in the day giving out shitty recolours of seraph armorset. but now they've put so much detail and care into the mtx rewards that it makes older mtx's really seem like waste of money.

why would ggg put so much effort and make it achievable by casuals?

its a numbers game. despite the game content being highly catered toward the smallest group of players, its always beneficial for ggg to cast a bigger net to catch more fish.

and that is what ggg has been doing for the past 10 years.

and if i m being real, if catering to the hardcore challenge chasers were profitable, we would have more races. GGG realized ITS NOT WORTH IT. if they did they would have kept doing it. instead, they dump their resources into making more challenge rewards for the next league for the casuals.

analyze yourself. how many races did we have back in the day compared to right now?

and what prizes do we have for special events now? usually GGG gives out entire existing armorsets or lootbox rewards for the harder special events. this is practically zero cost on their development side.

you might not like it but if you see the resources poured into new leagues challenge rewards vs limited run events, you can clearly see whos the real target when it comes to marketing.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I’m sorry that it makes you sad that we ask for challenges to be what they are called, to make the game more fun for us.

to summarize, people like you would actively want to make the game experience WORSE for other players to benefit yourself.

Funny enough it is people like you who don't care about challenges yet want our game experience to be worse. I'm not surprised. If you disagree with the idea, that’s completely fine, but please address the mechanics and not imagined motives.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Reworking the challenge system would be a great way to boost league retention, because fun, challenging and meaningful content is what actually keeps invested players engaged. The system should be updated even if it annoys a few casuals who may or may not quit. After all, it’s the dedicated, engaged players who sustain the game’s growth and keep it thriving, both in community and financially.

I agree with this, but funny enough, people who are not interested in challenges seems to not want us to have fun.

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Strickl3r#3809 wrote:

pink and a little bycycle with training wheels next to it for softcore trade, with a message: Well done little princess, now go tell everyone you have 40/40 ;P

I like this! :D

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I agree with this, but funny enough, people who are not interested in challenges seems to not want us to have fun.

Honestly, it’s wild, those who have repeatedly claimed to quit PoE, or barely touch anything beyond carry runs, are often the ones most eager to block not just challenge reworks, but any changes that would make the game more enjoyable for the broader audience, seemingly out of FOMO or pure spite at others having fun, while the people who actually engage with the system are the ones pushing for improvements. I mean, really.

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

Funny enough it is people like you who don't care about challenges yet want our game experience to be worse. I'm not surprised. If you disagree with the idea, that’s completely fine, but please address the mechanics and not imagined motives.

its quite clear you dont read my other posts. i've openly stated many times i WANT solo challenges. but unlike you and others, i recognize that this must be done in a way that doesnt make it worse for others.

all the suggestions that people like you make are very selfish and if implemented, makes other player experience worse.

and i've actually given an actual suggestion that gives people like you an option to be rewarded for actual real challenges in a way that does not detract from other peoples experience. but you just simply reject it since "iT eNcOuRaGeS RmT".

you fail to see all that and claim i want to make your experience worse? lmao what?

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Honestly, it’s wild, those who have repeatedly claimed to quit PoE, or barely touch anything beyond carry runs, are often the ones most eager to block not just challenge reworks, but any changes that would make the game more enjoyable for the broader audience, seemingly out of FOMO or pure spite at others having fun, while the people who actually engage with the system are the ones pushing for improvements. I mean, really.

you too. i m not against new challenges. but i m against anything that takes away from one persons enjoyment in order to give another person enjoyment.

and it seems people like you are just so selfish. you cant compromise. and yeah i know you're talking about me without mentioning my name. but i dont expect much from random forummers who think only about themselves.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

Funny enough it is people like you who don't care about challenges yet want our game experience to be worse. I'm not surprised. If you disagree with the idea, that’s completely fine, but please address the mechanics and not imagined motives.

its quite clear you dont read my other posts. i've openly stated many times i WANT solo challenges. but unlike you and others, i recognize that this must be done in a way that doesnt make it worse for others.

all the suggestions that people like you make are very selfish and if implemented, makes other player experience worse.

and i've actually given an actual suggestion that gives people like you an option to be rewarded for actual real challenges in a way that does not detract from other peoples experience. but you just simply reject it since "iT eNcOuRaGeS RmT".

you fail to see all that and claim i want to make your experience worse? lmao what?

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

Honestly, it’s wild, those who have repeatedly claimed to quit PoE, or barely touch anything beyond carry runs, are often the ones most eager to block not just challenge reworks, but any changes that would make the game more enjoyable for the broader audience, seemingly out of FOMO or pure spite at others having fun, while the people who actually engage with the system are the ones pushing for improvements. I mean, really.

you too. i m not against new challenges. but i m against anything that takes away from one persons enjoyment in order to give another person enjoyment.

and it seems people like you are just so selfish. you cant compromise. and yeah i know you're talking about me without mentioning my name. but i dont expect much from random forummers who think only about themselves.

Let's not get flustered here. There's no need for that hostility.

You did make a suggestion for solo challenge rewards, but the reason people disagree with it is not because they didn't read your post, but because the spirit of challenge rewards have always been vanity accolades and MTX. Now, you propose that for the extra solo challenges we should be rewarded with alt art items. These would be limited to the league their respective challenges belong to and thus be of scarcity and desirability. There's not a question if these will be subject of RMT, but how badly they'll be affected by it.

People already FOMO about a single mystery box for hardcore events where you just have to hit level 50 in campaign to receive your reward. Now think about how bad that would be for alt art items.

That's why others have argued against it, and that's why I haven't even brought that suggestion up myself. Vanity stuff like an enhanced challenge totem or marking challenges as solo completed on your forum profiles is fine, tradeable in game items isn't.

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exsea#1724 wrote:

but i m against anything that takes away from one persons enjoyment in order to give another person enjoyment.

and it seems people like you are just so selfish. you cant compromise.

So you’re saying that you’re against anything that takes away one person’s enjoyment to give another’s.
But it sounds like what you mean is that whenever your enjoyment, or one person’s enjoyment, is at stake, someone else’s must give way.
Which, by your own definition, is exactly the trade-off you claim to oppose, just with the roles switched???