Annual reminder that XP loss on death is bad design.

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Ispita#4020 wrote:

bunch of people rmt. They buy hundreds of divines buy the items and faceroll the game with the most op builds then they don't understand why people die when they don't.

Some of the broken builds are so insane that I could drag in a random stranger from the streets give them a broken build and tell them to go around and hold down right click and even they wouldn't die without knowing what game they even play.

I genuinely have no idea how RMT factors into any of these misconceptions. Yes, it’s an unfortunate issue that exists within the game, but it’s hardly some omnipresent force shaping every build. Players running powerful, endgame-melting setups with enough layered defenses to shrug off deaths, and therefore the death penalty are not evidence of RMT in action.

If anything, SSF players alone dismantle that narrative. Tell me how they are supposedly RMTing their way into characters that obliterate endgame while tanking hits like a fortress. Oh right, they aren’t. They simply understand progression, gearing, crafting, and build fundamentals. And the exact same logic applies to the overwhelming majority of players in trade leagues.

A strong, death-resistant character isn’t a smoking gun for RMT. It’s usually just the natural outcome of knowledge, smart choices, and actually playing the game well. Claiming otherwise is nothing more than reaching.I genuinely have no idea how RMT factors into any of these misconceptions. Yes, it’s an unfortunate issue that exists within the game, but it’s hardly some omnipresent force shaping every build. Players running powerful, endgame-melting setups with enough layered defenses to shrug off deaths, and therefore the death penalty—are not evidence of RMT in action.

If anything, SSF players alone dismantle that narrative. Tell me how they are supposedly RMTing their way into characters that obliterate endgame while tanking hits like a fortress. Oh right, they aren’t. They simply understand progression, gearing, crafting, and build fundamentals. And the exact same logic applies to the overwhelming majority of players in trade leagues.

A strong, death-resistant character isn’t a smoking gun for RMT. It’s usually just the natural outcome of knowledge, smart choices, and actually playing the game well. Claiming otherwise is nothing more than reaching.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The elitism is crazy, people are just asking for the game to not have backwards progress. And they don't understand just how horrible it is to start a mapping session/day with 30% exp and end it on 23% exp. Its like "why did I even play? that was pointless".

Any game that makes you go 1 step forward 3 steps backwards like that is just not fun

It’s not elitism to point out why the death penalty exists. Calling basic game design elitist is a misunderstanding.

If all your progress is tied to XP and deaths wipe that out, the real question is why you keep dying. Even a single session gives you currency and game knowledge, which can reduce future deaths if used. Most new players figure out the basics in a league or two, like building defenses to avoid constant deaths.

The game expects you to learn, adapt, and improve. If you ignore that advice, even when countless players have explained why deaths happen and how to prevent them, then of course it feels punishing. The “not fun” part usually comes from dying repeatedly, not the penalty itself. Once your defenses are sorted, it disappears.

I genuinely don’t know why we’re still playing if the game isn’t fun, and we are the ones making it not fun by refusing to fix the problems. I’m not sure what else to tell you at this point.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The elitism is crazy, people are just asking for the game to not have backwards progress. And they don't understand just how horrible it is to start a mapping session/day with 30% exp and end it on 23% exp. Its like "why did I even play? that was pointless".

Any game that makes you go 1 step forward 3 steps backwards like that is just not fun. This has nothing to do with "core values", exp loss isn't as important as the people defending it think it is. If it was optional, nobody would opt-in. If it was deleted, everyone would forget it ever existed. Literally optional challenge modes like HC and SSF exist, no reason to leave outdated HC mechanics like exp loss on death in SC Trade. Its the easy sandbox mode, just let people have their fun?

What is so wrong with allowing a random casual to passively gather exp and hit lvl98 in 3 weeks of mapping? Did that break the balance of the game? The economy? What negative effect does that have exactly? None. The positive is that this player will still be playing, have a chance of buying more supporter packs/mtx/stash tabs and will not have uninstalled because the game disrespected their time by stealing their exp away on death. This is why people buy legion 5-way rota slots, they can't be bothered trying to level up with the exp loss. Its not about how slow it is, I wouldn't mind the current exp speed if losing exp was impossible. I'd just chill and map till I hit 100, that's how a normal game should be.

Lets keep it up with your point of view:

1 - people farm divines and buy itens in trade instead of learning how to craft, thats why ggg should remove craft from the game. We should just earn points while mapping, and we could spend those points to create perfect itens for our build. Casuals need perfect itens with zero effort too.

2 - we should buff all skills to a point where it does not matter what i allocate in my paasive skill tree. With this change i can chill until endgame.

3- we should not allow monsters to kill players. Instead of that if a player's health reaches 0, it could trigger an explosion of roses on the screen, with the phrase " you are great, keep trying ". After that, you would get healed to 100%. No deaths, because death sucks (just imagine, playing a game where you can lose, thats so dumb).

4- we could also delete campaign and allow people to choose to start in maps with whatever lvl they want. Why make players lose time playing the game to achieve anything, we just want booms zooms and tinks.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I'd just chill and map till I hit 100, that's how a normal game should be.

You forgot to add "IMHO"

There's still people who want whatever little challenge there is to remain where it is.

I don't mind if some people will have whatever they want - no exp penalty, even more gambling, auto loot (this one isn't bad tbh), paid lootboxes with mirrors and headhunters and so on as long it is in some separate game mode which i wouldn't touch with a stick. Unfortunately, these changes usually are global so then i'm against ruining my cute cozy SSF softcore even more.


Before you say "elitism" again - i believe i'm as casual as it can be, usually leveling my first league character in a week without any rush, mapping slowly, picking up stuff, barely touching ubers in all these years etcetera etcetera.

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dW2005#0568 wrote:

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

I'd just chill and map till I hit 100, that's how a normal game should be.

You forgot to add "IMHO"

There's still people who want whatever little challenge there is to remain where it is.

I don't mind if some people will have whatever they want - no exp penalty, even more gambling, auto loot (this one isn't bad tbh), paid lootboxes with mirrors and headhunters and so on as long it is in some separate game mode which i wouldn't touch with a stick. Unfortunately, these changes usually are global so then i'm against ruining my cute cozy SSF softcore even more.


Before you say "elitism" again - i believe i'm as casual as it can be, usually leveling my first league character in a week without any rush, mapping slowly, picking up stuff, barely touching ubers in all these years etcetera etcetera.

I don't mind if they make exp loss a toggle, or only remove it in sc trade. Or put a funny icon next to my name in chat if I've chosen to play without it. The more people can choose how they want to play the game, the better. Player agency is what I'm asking for, I'll even take an option to disable exp loss but cut my exp gained by X%.

I could entertain this idea but only on two conditions:
1. Such characters would be unable to go past level 80 permanently
2. Such characters will be excluded from challenge league (for obvious reasons)

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I could entertain this idea but only on two conditions:
1. Such characters would be unable to go past level 80 permanently
2. Such characters will be excluded from challenge league (for obvious reasons)

That's like saying "your game gets uninstalled from your drive if you have no exp loss". Who would agree to this lol

The ladder on SC Trade means nothing, its a complete meme where people rip in valdo void maps all day at lvl100. And you can literally buy exp carries, and I have proudly spent my divines on those to cheat my way to 100. lvl100 stopped being an achievement or meaning anything years ago, the game has changed. And exp loss is just an outdated leftover mechanic.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I could entertain this idea but only on two conditions:
1. Such characters would be unable to go past level 80 permanently
2. Such characters will be excluded from challenge league (for obvious reasons)

That's like saying "your game gets uninstalled from your drive if you have no exp loss". Who would agree to this lol

The ladder on SC Trade means nothing, its a complete meme where people rip in valdo void maps all day at lvl100. And you can literally buy exp carries, and I have proudly spent my divines on those to cheat my way to 100. lvl100 stopped being an achievement or meaning anything years ago, the game has changed. And exp loss is just an outdated leftover mechanic.

Then make a topic about removing exp carries and I will back you up, because to auto level 100 I say "no".

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I could entertain this idea but only on two conditions:
1. Such characters would be unable to go past level 80 permanently
2. Such characters will be excluded from challenge league (for obvious reasons)

Sure. Let's remove xp leech in every form (like 5ways or running behind people to leech xp) also make all challenges ssf so nobody can buy it then. Well people can still pilot accounts so that would not really work.

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Ispita#4020 wrote:

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Nomancs#6176 wrote:

I could entertain this idea but only on two conditions:
1. Such characters would be unable to go past level 80 permanently
2. Such characters will be excluded from challenge league (for obvious reasons)

Sure. Let's remove xp leech in every form also make all challenges ssf so nobody can buy it then.

Make a topic, I will back you up.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

. And exp loss is just an outdated leftover mechanic.

Quite the opposite. The fact that people are still complaining about it makes it a current and relevant mechanic, acting as intended. Friction. GGG loves its friction.