GGG can't bring good combat to PoE2 without major changes - the "animation" issue.

It was everywhere and I mean -everywhere-. The complaints about slow speed and all that. Please don't pretend like it didn't exist. It's just silly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/18as959/does_anyone_else_feel_seriously_disappointed_by/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15dpruj/considering_how_they_changed_poe2_to_be_slow_its/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15cb8pe/people_are_gonna_cry_about_how_slow_poe2_is/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/187vept/is_it_me_or_does_poe2_just_looks_super_super_slow/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15cggzx/poe_2_looks_slow_no/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/19f3t8o/would_you_play_path_of_exile_2_if_was_slower/

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15oxakd/poe_2_slow_gameplay_enjoyers_allocating_extreme/

Short summary search regarding streamers themselves:









If you think none of that influenced them... that's just silly.

But, again, that's not the main important point here. I don't know why you latch onto that so much.

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

it's far easier to just go the PoE1 route.

What if the PoE1 route is the intended route ?

If that was the intended route, why add dodge roll, why add parry, why make lots of skills with long animation times, why add active block, why add "bosses with souls-like mechanics" cited from Mark himself, and most importantly... why even separate the games?

It's a rhetorical question, of course. The answer is rather obvious.

Oh, I see, AI andy, now that makes sense.

"

If you think none of that influenced them... that's just silly.

So you put out reddit posts, and some AI slop. Seriously scary.
And on top of that, this supposedly put pressure on GGG on short notice, meanwhile asking for inventory and trade QoL are ignored without any issue for a decade.

"

If that was the intended route, why add dodge roll, why add parry, why make lots of skills with long animation times, why add active block, why add "bosses with souls-like mechanics" cited from Mark himself

Did Mark really said that or it's another "I remember" thing ?

Why deadeye, why Rhoa, why pathfinder, why wyvern, why flicker, why headhunter and temporalis ?
I'll repeat again, educate yourself about confirmation bias.

"

and most importantly... why even separate the games?

Why not ?
Because they can ?
Because it opens opportunities for crazy ideas ?
For marketing power ?
Because they have trouble implementing on top of PoE1 without everything blowing out of proportion ?

Because if you nerf an existing game, it always feels bad ?
Meanwhile you can start at a lower threshold on a new game, the nerf is heavier but it will be not percieved as bad, and if you overnerfed, you can still give back (pretending you heard the complaint, ever heard about anchoring ?) without compromising your margin for future updates.
It's just a wipe that is supposed to hurt less (that is questionable though :D)

I don't know man, you're not supposed to be new here.
PoE is a live game, which means a constant fight between players and devs, giving new toys, enough to be impactful on new league, but not too much to make your own game and future leagues implode.

We've seen that already, the starting point and progress of PoE1 over a decade. They said it,and I linked it "it's not going to be slow", "10 years of future updates", etc. They're just trying to do that again, while bringing cool new stuff as much as they can.
It's not intended to be different. It may end up different, or not, it all depends on the league choices and stats results. The same way PoE1 lived a chaotic life with good things and mistakes on the way.

People should listen GGG for what they say, and not what they want to hear.

My money is on (for context, I can't stand PoE2 atm) :

They thought they would be (are ?) capable of updating both games, but it is probably already showing its limits.
At some point PoE1 will stop evolving (maintenance mode), but won't be shutdown (at least for some time : there's really no reason to ever need to shutdown PoE1)

PoE2 will be the main game, with the leagues and new content. It won't be PoE1, it won't be completely different, it will be PoE2 with old and new stuff, with margin for new updates for another decade (hopefully ? long way to go)
my goal is not to make the game slower [...] make so there's actually interesting interactions

All the tourists (wink) from both camps :
- "This is my game, you PoE1 player plague can go play PoE1"
- "PoE2 is a garbage soul like"
and all variants are in for a bad surprise. Those guys are just not listening to GGG and projecting their own expectations. GGG is only trying to make a good game for the next decade. Let them cook, you have no clue.

Nota : No AI has been used for this post, all hand fed to my keyboard.

Im saying for a long time that the game has an Issue with telgtaphing and Boss design. They want to be ARPG but with Dark souls elements, but the Dark souls elements are severely lacking. Dark Souls has extremely well telegraphed skills and especially one hit skills are extremely well telegraphed.

While some bosses have well telegrqphed skills. The executionerd Guillotine in Act 1 for example is well telegraphed. Rath reaker is also well telegraphed even then the Dodge window is too small when youre ranged. So u have to get close even on ranged Classes.

In general its boring that most of the actual dodge mechanics are "roll behind the boss"
Rolling somewhere else is often not the right call.


The biggest issue appear once u fight Bosses in the Endgame. U can juice bosses so much they end up dealing 20k dmg just with a normal attack.

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

IonSugeRau1-1069 wrote:

and most importantly... why even separate the games?

Why not ?
Because they can ?
Because it opens opportunities for crazy ideas ?
For marketing power ?
Because they have trouble implementing on top of PoE1 without everything blowing out of proportion ?

Amazing.. "why not?" ... just amazing 😂

You know what's funny? Your whole post is somehow the slop and not my quick AI search. It's rather sad.

And yes, reddit posts.. that's where people complain.. and over here on the forums.. where you are right now. Not sure what you're trying there.

And yes, of course it put pressure on them. it was the nr. 1 loudest thing echoed everywhere.

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

If that was the intended route, why add dodge roll, why add parry, why make lots of skills with long animation times, why add active block, why add "bosses with souls-like mechanics" cited from Mark himself

Did Mark really said that or it's another "I remember" thing ?

Why deadeye, why Rhoa, why pathfinder, why wyvern, why flicker, why headhunter and temporalis ?
I'll repeat again, educate yourself about confirmation bias.

Maybe you didn't understand the part where I mentioned things most likely changed mid development? Or was that too complicated to understand? I could add to that list myself if you want.

And you're still dodging the question there by doing a "what about" type of thing without even realizing how weak that argument is based on what I've said already.

So please, tell me, why add dodge roll, why add parry, why make lots of skills with long animation times, why add active block, why add "bosses with souls-like mechanics" cited from Mark himself in a game that supposedly, by your assumption, had the goal to be the exact same as PoE1?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UehsEJCfuns&t=130s

Where Mark mentioned it too, by the way. You might want to take your own advice and try to educate yourself better.

On that note, you might want to check a bit of info on who you're speaking with before making snarky tourist remarks, which in itself are childish anyway and tell a lot about you.

I might not be a scout girl with lots of badges like you are, but I've played before you did.

oh boy, this whole thread reminds of a birthday party where the adults have a really interesting conversation and there is this one child who isnt quite old enough to understand what is being talked about, but still keeps interrupting and completely disrupts what could have been a great conversation.
If you havent figured it out by now... its you rob_korn#1745... you are the child in that story. Please let us have this interesting conversation.

On the actual topic:

I completely agree that animation is lacking with map minions and i would love for them to tackle that. But i think they should focus on bosses first. Although there are a bunch of very well designed bosses, they ruined a lot of them with bad scaling in the endgame. Right now bosses can be killed pretty quickly by a lot of builds. On the other hand pretty much everything a boss does (if on a juiced map) will kill you. Which makes things like life flasks, life leech, regen, dmg recouped as life and other healing completely pointless. A lot of mechanics are obviously designed to fill your life back up after you got hit. But if everything is a oneshot... well i guess i dont have to explain this.

To make boss fights better in the endgame, bosses should do less dmg (aside from rare oneshot mechanics) so you can engage in alonger fight where you can use all the healing effects the game provides. At the same time bosses should have way more health so you actually have to play out the boss mechanics and not just skip them all.

"

lol49#6377 wrote:

oh boy, this whole thread reminds of a birthday party where the adults have a really interesting conversation and there is this one child who isnt quite old enough to understand what is being talked about, but still keeps interrupting and completely disrupts what could have been a great conversation.
If you havent figured it out by now... its you rob_korn#1745... you are the child in that story. Please let us have this interesting conversation.

Actualy they are the only objectiv person in this thread... Funny

As someone who never played poe1, thanks Rob for sharing the context of this game developement. (with facts, not hangry reddit users posts)

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Amazing.. "why not?" ... just amazing 😂

Sure, amazing is ignoring the full paragraph in bold afterwards as well as the real points after this light humorous 2 words line.

Let me put it back again, in case you skipped through :
Because if you nerf an existing game, it always feels bad ?
Meanwhile you can start at a lower threshold on a new game, the nerf is heavier but it will be not percieved as bad, and if you overnerfed, you can still give back (pretending you heard the complaint, ever heard about anchoring ?) without compromising your margin for future updates.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

And you're still dodging the question there by doing a "what about" type of thing without even realizing how weak that argument is based on what I've said already.

I'm not dodging, I'm pulling you back on earth to back up your "facts". You pretend, I'm asking you to show. I have been showing my claims.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

So please, tell me, why add dodge roll, why add parry, why make lots of skills with long animation times, why add active block,

Because they are cool mechanics and they try their version of it, is that supposed to be rocket science ? Isn't the goal of a new game to bring new stuff ?
Why are you ignoring that they also added Rhoa ? Isn't it opposing your slow combat ?
Unless it's just there because it's a cool mechanic, and not your bias.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Where Mark mentioned it too, by the way. You might want to take your own advice and try to educate yourself better.

Funny, though I asked for sources, at least i'm glad you provided a real one for once. Nice try calling me out when that's my stance from the very start.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

by your assumption, had the goal to be the exact same as PoE1?

Meanwhile, this is what I really wrote :

"

It won't be PoE1, it won't be completely different

Do you need me to explain in more details the difference between "exact same" and "similar" ?

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

why add "bosses with souls-like mechanics" cited from Mark himself in a game that supposedly, by your assumption, had the goal to be the exact same as PoE1?

Meanwhile, in your own link, Mark says :
"experience making hundreds if not thousands of bosses in its predecessor taking all that knowledge together [...] with bosses that are utilizing Souls like mechanics"
You realize the predessor he's talking about is PoE1, right ? Thus the similarity I'm talking about. Great that they bring some inspiration from souls, doesn't make it the goal though. But again, thanks for that proof.

Now, I'll quote back from your original post :

"

Bosses do posses some of this more or less but everything else outside of that is severely lacking [...] Most normal enemies do not present any of that

And you're posting Mark talking about Boss design. I'm confused now, are you talking about bosses or the whole game ? Your OP is specifically talking about "everything else outside". Which one is it now ?

"

On that note, you might want to check a bit of info on who you're speaking with before making snarky tourist remarks, which in itself are childish anyway and tell a lot about you.

LOL, get down your horses. I thought the "wink" was a clear indicator of something going on, but it went above your head !
Don't victimize yourself mate, that was a reference to this :
because they're tourists

"

I might not be a scout girl with lots of badges like you are, but I've played before you did.

lol², first you have no way to know that (I didn't link steam for a very long time), and second it's irrelevant to the discussion, didn't know it was a contest.
That said, I respected the fact that you've been here for a long time :
"I don't know man, you're not supposed to be new here."

Anyway, you can keep your bias, time will tell I guess. Mark my words and check again in 2 years, that would be funny.

"

lol49#6377 wrote:

oh boy, this whole thread reminds of a birthday party where the adults have a really interesting conversation and there is this one child who isnt quite old enough to understand what is being talked about, but still keeps interrupting and completely disrupts what could have been a great conversation.
If you havent figured it out by now... its you rob_korn#1745... you are the child in that story. Please let us have this interesting conversation.

If you're calling me a child for bringing facts and video context, then fine, feel free to do so, I will happily remain a child in your irrelevant opinion :)

You can have the discussion, but get your facts straight. Despite your snarky introduction to me, I have nothing to say to the rest of your post, because it isn't based on any twisted fact or expectation treated as a fact. That's your opinion, presented as such, and I'm more than fine with it, regardless if I agree or not. I'm not discussing opinions.

"

BlastYa#4875 wrote:

As someone who never played poe1, thanks Rob for sharing the context of this game developement. (with facts, not hangry reddit users posts)

At least it's useful to someone, so that was worth it. Thanks to you !

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

Anyway, you can keep your bias, time will tell I guess. Mark my words and check again in 2 years, that would be funny.

Full slop post not really worth replying to as it keeps ignoring my points or viewing them through a preferential filter in an attempt to twist everything to your view. In your head parry, dodge, animation-locked skills and everything of the like that are clearly tied to a specific gameplay and do NOT work well with PoE1 are just random cool things they wanted to try... nothing more. It's just boring at this point...

That being said I want to ask on this last statement you made... what exactly are you talking about? Time will tell what...?

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

BlastYa#4875 wrote:

As someone who never played poe1, thanks Rob for sharing the context of this game developement. (with facts, not hangry reddit users posts)

At least it's useful to someone, so that was worth it. Thanks to you !

As someone that never played poe1, so has no idea of what the community outrage was like at the time... why is he even commenting on this to begin with?

It's also just amusing that posts that show community outrage aren't proof of community outrage somehow... Neither is the fact which I've outlined repeatedly where I state that the constant question of "do you want to make it slow?" is present in almost all of the video links even you provided... which just further solidifies my point that it was constantly talked about in the community.... just fantastic!

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

As someone that never played poe1, so has no idea of what the community outrage was like at the time... why is he even commenting on this to begin with?

Because she have 2k hours in poe2 so she's 100% concerned by your repetitiv posts on this forum trying to turn this game into something it isnt. (And apparently never intended to be)

If your only meter is the drama of the community i'm very sorry for you. That's not very in depth toughts.

Guess we'll see you again (and again) on your next post about the same topic.