Feedback from longtime 36/40 and 40/40 player about challenge design

Easier and quicker challenges will make me wanna come back every patch even more. So on the contrary, it does indeed boost player retention.


Doesn't matter for how long I play, if I keep returning to the game every league then the challenge system is working perfectly as intended.

Whether the changes I want happen or not doesn't really matter, farming a few quick divines and throwing them at carry services is ez

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Easier and quicker challenges will make me wanna come back every patch even more. So on the contrary, it does indeed boost player retention.

I don't think.....you understand what the metric "player retention" is.

YOU coming back for something has absolutely no correlational or causational relationship to "player retention".

That requires far more proof than a singular anecdotal piece of evidence from a player as unique as yourself.



That's like a person saying "well...I personally believe that the earth is flat, therefore its logical that the flat earth theory has credibility."

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Easier and quicker challenges will make me wanna come back every patch even more. So on the contrary, it does indeed boost player retention.

Doesn't matter for how long I play, if I keep returning to the game every league then the challenge system is working perfectly as intended.

player retention is about the bigger picture, and not just the habit of a single individual.

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Pashid#4643 wrote:

player retention is about the bigger picture, and not just the habit of a single individual.

Ex: "retention" from personal experience.....may be a part of a greater LACK of retention across the whole system. But I bet you didn't consider that, ever.

Or even just the possibility that.....if the challenges as-is have a positive effect on retention, then a CHANGE in that system may result in a BETTER positive effect.

Considering that, even someone such as yourself who is ALL ABOUT the easy challenges (probably the single most vocal player arguing for these), the current system only gets you to come back for a week.....then there CERTAINLY are better systems out there for greater retention, with longer effects.

You can't call yourself a 36/40 and 40/40 player if you never did your challenges without carries.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

You can't call yourself a 36/40 and 40/40 player if you never did your challenges without carries.

I do most of em myself, and boss carry/challenge carries are just a part of SC Trade's economy, it still takes some amount of skill to farm divines that quickly in order to pay someone for an uber boss kill or whatever. Its all fair game because I just play on trade league.

I'd certainly not call myself an HC or SSF challenge gamer, because I don't play those modes. Nor do I do them in Ruthless either. But I do complete them on Softcore Trade, in whatever way I can.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

You can't call yourself a 36/40 and 40/40 player if you never did your challenges without carries.

He can't hear you over his 40 tag.

Just because the method is tacky doesn't mean it isn't legit. Man still had to procure the materials to pay for it.

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

You can't call yourself a 36/40 and 40/40 player if you never did your challenges without carries.

I fully agree, and addressing the carry cheese is a long-overdue and necessary change. It makes it far easier to distinguish between players who genuinely engage with the game and those who barely engage with it at all.
Even if that distinction isn’t particularly hard to make already, it’s still a much-needed step forward.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

boss carry/challenge carries are just a part of SC Trade's economy

They’re not really part of the economy, just an unfortunate byproduct of players doing everything they can to exploit the system. In this case, it means taking advantage of weaker players who depend on carries simply to achieve something they would be unable to accomplish on their own. The same thing applies to the players buying those carry services, since they completely miss out on the natural progression curve the game is built around.

When there’s a 40 next to someone’s name, and people also know the motives behind it, it becomes clear when a significant portion of those challenges were completed through carries. Those motives usually include a refusal to learn the basics, a lack of interest in improving, and a preference for shortcuts over actual engagement with the game. Many of these same players already struggle with the campaign or red maps, which only reinforces the point. That doesn’t represent experience or mastery, and it shouldn’t be treated as such.

Luckily, GGG is smart enough to distinguish genuine feedback from active players versus feedback coming from people who already struggle with the game and are mostly asking for even more instant gratification, despite the game already being extremely generous. At the end of the day, GGG focuses on balancing the game around what’s good for the majority, not the vocal minority.

I don't care much for challenges personally, but I do agree that conditional bullshit like cross contamination or "do two back flips during exarch ball while avoiding balls and alike" should not exist.

Also, on one hand I understand that supporter pack rewards must be the shinest of them all, since they are the main income source of GGG every league. But it would be great if challenge rewards were at least at the level of settlers league. Most leagues the rewards are rather ugly and disappointing.

As for ubers. I believe it should be mandatory to complete them ALONE for 36 or more challenges. If you can reach 36 challenges without being carried or buying them I doubt 4 out 8 ubers are a hurdle.

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Bigwilleh#1842 wrote:

Just because the method is tacky doesn't mean it isn't legit. Man still had to procure the materials to pay for it.

Exaaactly. And its super fun to farm divs so I can pay others for carries, can't wait to do it again in 3.28.