:;()$&@"\The Anime Pub/:;()$&@"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PkBs4qI1bb4

...goosebumps.

"

North2 wrote:

How about this...would you say Eva could have been a better show if all the characters were replaced with tropy, flashy, wonky anime characters like DBZ?

of course not. it would have been a better show if it had been condensed.
the first half of episode 14 is the obligatory recap of the previous events SHOWN to us (oh, i see how this show trusts its viewers intelligence and attention when it DOES THAT after 14 episodes)
- and then episode 20 (TWENTY out of 26!) actually feeds us some useful information of events before the shows, charater-backgrounds, its actually a good episode, it comes close to making this clusterf*ck a little more understandable.
but how can you recap an already told story after 14 episodes and give the useful information at 20 episodes? and if they only feed the viewers this information so late to have a bigger effect, then wait to the VERY LAST MOMENT, or put it in an ova even...

this is just bad writing/ directing. objectively bad.

"

North2 wrote:

Would it even be Eva if it was?

okay, so what IS eva? what constitutes it? even if its the symbols, the character-study and creating a certain mood or atmosphere - that could still have been done in TEN episodes or so.

wonder what would happen if you showed someone who isnt aware at all of eva only the last two episodes (which could be condensed into one) - i reckon theyd still get the point: "oh, this is meant to be depressing, this is about having to becoming a man despite not wanting to, about accepting the realities of life..... blabla..."

Episode 13-14 tends to be a recap episode for a lot of shows because it's the start of a new season after a 12-13 episode cour. It has phased out as completely unnecessary for shows that are short, while it's still somewhat common for shows going into three seasons or more(especially if the show is coming back after a long hiatus).

You wanted it to be shorter, sure. But I didn't mind it being 26 episodes...I think. It's been 15 years so I honestly can't be certain, but I don't remember it being dragged out. The bottom line here is that you didn't enjoy it as a piece of entertainment, while I did.

When judging the length of shows, there is one other thing that can change a person's views for anime and TV shows, and that's whether you watch it week-by-week or as a marathon. Some shows, like Steins;Gate, becomes exponentially better when you watch it week-by-week. I don't know if Eva is one of them, but it's something to think about.

Why don't we all try to act like normal and sane human beings for one and just openly admit that not every show is meant for everyone, stop the discussion and continue in a peaceful manner?
Oh, I forgot.
This is the internet. That's why.

Currently on the 2nd season of Knights of Sidonia because the first one simply stopped having more episodes instead of having a proper ending. After that it'll be Steins;Gate and a certain other show I don't want to name because it could resurrect a discussion that should die and stay dead for good. After that probably some Nichijou and maybe a Flying Witch rewatch (seriously, that is THE most relaxing show I can think of) and after that Fate. A LOT of Fate.

Non non biyori is my favorite go-to show for relaxing. Saki is probably my most rewatched show, if we exclude dbz during my childhood years.

Hmmm... my most re-watched series would be Bokura wa minna Kawaisou. For some reason it's my favourite. Maybe because of the characters. Maybe because of the opening. Maybe because of the whole atmosphere. I don't really know and don't care either.

"

FCK42 wrote:

Oh, Re zero... it's been a while. Pretty much the only series that had some sort of time travel in it that I enjoyed.

Probably because it wasn't really time travely, it comes across as more of a replay from last save than any sort of time travel.

"

FCK42 wrote:

Hmmm... my most re-watched series would be Bokura wa minna Kawaisou. For some reason it's my favourite. Maybe because of the characters. Maybe because of the opening. Maybe because of the whole atmosphere. I don't really know and don't care either.

Why doesn't that show have a season two or an ending WHYYYYYYYYYYYY.

such a cute show with fun characters and a wholesome relaxing mood.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

鬼殺し wrote:

But everyone has some insight into what it means to them to be human. That, to me, is why art. Why philosophy. Why fiction. To share that.

just no. the moment one starts to doubt or just probe what it means to be human or other basic, SELFUNDERSTANDING concepts or facts of life - one dissolves (or transcends...). because there will always be more questions than answers.
most people go through their lifes without really questioning it - and that is a very happy and a very effective way of going through life.
take the very basis of what makes human kind: language. language, every language, comes to man seemingly naturally. reflect upon what a word actually means, how it works...read a linguists book ...and language dissolves.
take love or trust (which are being examined in eva): the moment one asks themself: "(why) do i love/ trust this person?" - its over.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

you never know who might read it and what they might think. What might inspire them. Its all part of a huge conversation and not everybody can be hard scientists or carpenters.

"

North2 wrote:

The bottom line here is that you didn't enjoy it as a piece of entertainment, while I did.

"

FCK42 wrote:

just openly admit that not every show is meant for everyone, stop the discussion and continue in a peaceful manner?

i liked it because i liked it, taste is relative and individual, everyone enjoys other things.
this sums up all the "arguments" you could muster against my factual, detailed arguing.

funny, you all claim that eva was so smart, an intellectual, artsy thing - but then all you can say in its defense is basically: "i liked it because i liked it!".
and when you get desperate, you get personal, in that you drag your own personality into this ("eva has changed my life, it holds a place in my heart") - which of course i cannot possibly argue against without attacking and insulting you. thats just cheap.

art is not based on individual "taste".
taste is not some divine, ellusive thing that couldnt be quantified - it can be quantified and it has been quantified.



watching eva has actually had a profound effect on me and indeed raised a question:

how could this deliberately unappealing, incoherent, poorly written and directed oddity revitalize anime as a whole?

and this sh*t is ironic as it gets:
- eva criticizes the "otaku"-lifestyle,
- it tries so hard to be artsy, deep, unconventional, non-mainstream,
- it baits the audience with mechas, literally "more fanservice next episode" and an epic story ...and it doesnt deliever on those
- the characters were deliberately written to be unlikeable,
- eva gives no answers and thus arguably encourages its audience to find answers for themselves, one of the points of this show is: "become what you are" ("amor fati", hi nietzsche)

and what did it result in?

- a mainstream hit that catapulted anime as a whole into the mainstream, ROFL,
- a cult-following that worships this thing and defends it in the exact opposite manner (as seen in this thread) of what eva encourages its audience to do,
- cosplayers who dress up as asuka or rei, ROFL,
- to this day a flood of merchandise, videogames, the whole commercial cannibalisation, no different than pokemon.

as a piece of art this thing has failed hard.
wonder what the writters are thinking when they see someone cosplay as rei/ asuka, when they see the flood of merchandise....


as a text/ story/ narrative/ piece of art eva is mostly pointless, shallow and pretentious, not to mention poorly executed.

as a cultural phenomenon it is very interesting indeed!

"

PaoloPinkel wrote:

"

North2 wrote:

The bottom line here is that you didn't enjoy it as a piece of entertainment, while I did.

i liked it because i liked it, taste is relative and individual, everyone enjoys other things.
this sums up all the "arguments" you could muster against my factual, detailed arguing.

funny, you all claim that eva was so smart, an intellectual, artsy thing - but then all you can say in its defense is basically: "i liked it because i liked it!".
and when you get desperate, you get personal, in that you drag your own personality into this ("eva has changed my life, it holds a place in my heart") - which of course i cannot possibly argue against without attacking and insulting you. thats just cheap.

art is not based on individual "taste".
taste is not some divine, ellusive thing that couldnt be quantified - it can be quantified and it has been quantified.

Hold up now. You're just cutting out my conclusion like a clickbait title, when you and I both know that what I said there has nothing to do with whether Eva is intellectual or artsy. If you didn't like it, all you cared about was learning psychology, and you like reading psychology books, then go ahead and go read a psychology book. I liked it, I don't care about learning psychology, and I don't like reading psychology books, so Eva was more than worth my time.

You were attacking Eva for its value as a work of art, and I said it's up to the viewer to decide that and you're only representing yourself. You were attacking Eva for its value for existence based on your valuation of Eva as a work of art, and that's when I made the argument that I liked it so it was definitely worth my time. And as you said, there is absolutely no argument you can make against that. It's not cheap, you're just way overstepping your bounds time and time again by treating your own values as the only thing that can be correct. Who are you to judge whether Eva is worth the time for everyone else? It was not worth the time for you, and you can only say that about yourself and nobody else.

I'd be completely fine if you respect other people's opinions on the matter. Remember, my original argument when I jumped in here was that the problem with you is the complete rejection of other people's values.

Your view on art is like a robot. First off, whether everything in art is quantifiable is still up to debate. There's currently AI engineers working towards drawing art and writing literature. I personally believe they'll be able to make masterpieces within the next 50 years. If they can, it proves that everything in art is quantifiable. If they cannot, then it proves that some things aren't quantifiable. I'm obviously in the camp that believes it is quantifiable.

BUT...even if it turns out that AI can make masterpieces, it's still up to the audience to decide whether they like it or not. It's ALWAYS up to the audience to decide whether it is a masterpiece in the first place, not some finely crafted checklist that says, "here's all the quantifiable traits of a masterpiece that the Mona Lisa has. Therefore, it is a masterpiece". It's ALWAYS going to be based on opinion. When the opinions of people changes, so does the quantifiable traits that make up a masterpiece. This is what Eva did in the anime world.

You were arrogantly treating Eva as 'bait for pseudo-intellectuals', like it's somehow beneath you. No, you just don't see its value as a work of art and that is just your opinion. When people treat it as a work of art, then it's a work of art. There is no other confirmation required.

As an aside, I don't even put Eva that high up in either artistic or entertainment value. It probably wouldn't even make it in the top 50 for me in either charts. That doesn't mean I'm going to start thrashing on the opinions of people who treats it as their undisputed #1.