Chain

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raics wrote:

Actually, fireball does count direct hit and indirect AoE hits separate, if you take AoE nodes that increase area damage and hit a cluster of enemies you primary target will take the same damage while those around him will take more. Confirmed by devs on some occasion.

Wow. It would be really good to see that confirmation, since I was sure up to this point that conc effect did increase single-target FB damage (as in, the fireball explodes and does an AoE hit instead of its 'normal' hit). I'll have a look in the fireball thread!

So in both of these cases, it does the listed base damage, while only doing the same damage as area damage in the case of the termination of the projectile?

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Mark_GGG wrote:

No, that is not the case. I suspect you're getting confused with cases where the projectile pierces - if the fireball pierces (or chains/forks) it clearly can't explode, so does non-aoe damage to the pierced target. But any time the projectile hits something and explodes, that thing and all things around it take the explosion damage. There is no non-aoe damage done by a fireball except in the pierce/fork/chain case where it doesn't explode.

Strange, I could swear I saw somewhere that the target directly struck takes less damage if having AoE damage mods, not only when piercing. And I remembered it exactly because I thought otherwise before that, it was pretty illogical to me too. All the misinformation floating around...

Anyway, this is a Chain thread, any quick comment about that if it's not any trouble? As I overelaborated on previous page it's really underwhelming right now except when using with LMP/GMP enhanced LA and maybe EK. Don't tell me it was intended for one skill only? If it got fixed the way I suggested the situation would be inverse, it would be bad with LA and work well with all other projectile skills (probably would break EK, though easily remedied by making EK projectiles pierce, I guess).

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Uvne wrote:

So in both of these cases, it does the listed base damage, while only doing the same damage as area damage in the case of the termination of the projectile?

Something like that. If you have no area damage bonuses it will do the damage listed on hotbar tooltip to all targets, if you do it will do listed damage on explosion and less damage on piercing. Those bonuses are pretty rare though, you got only 20% increased area damage on passive tree, a bit more on some uniques and a big multiplicative bonus on Concentrated effect.

I suspect it's that way so Shockwave totem wouldn't kick too much ass, a very useful skill but affected by very few bonuses damage-wise, generally underrated.

So after a quick Google search I can't find any answers so I figure I'll ask this here:

Chain has an initial damage effectiveness of 50%. At level 20 it has an increased effectiveness of 38%. By my math, Chain has a total damage effectiveness of 69%.

(0.5 + (0.5x0.38)) = 0.69
(Chain Effectiveness plus (Chain Effectiveness multiplied by Increased Damage per Level) equals total actual effectiveness.

Correct?

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diabloesamigo wrote:

So after a quick Google search I can't find any answers so I figure I'll ask this here:

Chain has an initial damage effectiveness of 50%. At level 20 it has an increased effectiveness of 38%. By my math, Chain has a total damage effectiveness of 69%.

(0.5 + (0.5x0.38)) = 0.69
(Chain Effectiveness plus (Chain Effectiveness multiplied by Increased Damage per Level) equals total actual effectiveness.

Correct?

Correct only if you dont have any other "increased damage" multipliers for that skill. Usually, you do (if you dont, your build/gear is utter crap, probably)

The correct value of Chain's damage effectiveness is (0.5*(1+0.38+X))/(1+X), where X is the sum of all other "increased damage" multipliers.
For example, if you have +200% increased damage (pretty a common value), then damage effectiveness of chain will be 0.563

Instead of being "Chains +2 times" should be

Chains +1 times
100% more Chaining

This would make Chain a much more viable support gem for skills which already chain such as Arc; 2+1 would be 3, then doubled would be 6, so a Chained Arc would chain 6 times. Functionality for skills without inherent Chains would be unaffected (double of 1 is still 2).

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Instead of being "Chains +2 times" should be

Chains +1 times
100% more Chaining

This would make Chain a much more viable support gem for skills which already chain such as Arc; 2+1 would be 3, then doubled would be 6, so a Chained Arc would chain 6 times. Functionality for skills without inherent Chains would be unaffected (double of 1 is still 2).

Actually, arc is the only skill, that has build-in chain. That that means only that you shouldnt use chain gem for it.
Look, there are some skills with build-in LMP/GMP - Spark (build-in LMP), Split Arrow (build-in GMP+), thar just means you should use other gems for them.

I think ''50% less damage'' should be reworked into ''50% less projectile dmg''.