what does affect bleeding damage from Puncture ?

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Malone wrote:

I would think increase physical would work but not increase physical with bow ( implicitely attack ). I would think that projectile damage would work too.

Something like that, just projectile damage (if bow) and straight physical damage like the implicit mod on rustic sash. Same thing as infernal blow and explosive arrow explosions, nothing attack-related affects them only nodes that got something to do with the nature of the effect.

Puncture always multiplicatively double-dipped in Vulnerability. The truth is, the skill hasn't gained much with this patch, that's probably why they didn't nerf it. Or if they did it was just a little bit, haven't really checked.

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Evantis wrote:

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Xymordos wrote:

Magnate should work with it. Also, Vulnerability will apply its buff TWICE to puncture :D
Very happy with this change, since my puncture does 100k damage on hit.

There is a huge difference between 100k damage on hit and 100k DPS in a tooltip, for a Puncture skill.

I actually crit for roughly 100k mixed damage, calculated. 8.5k combined damage with 1172% crit multiplier. My dps display is higher than 100k.

Enemy will bleed for ~100k physical dps if they walk.

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raics wrote:

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Malone wrote:

I would think increase physical would work but not increase physical with bow ( implicitely attack ). I would think that projectile damage would work too.

Something like that, just projectile damage (if bow) and straight physical damage like the implicit mod on rustic sash. Same thing as infernal blow and explosive arrow explosions, nothing attack-related affects them only nodes that got something to do with the nature of the effect.

Puncture always multiplicatively double-dipped in Vulnerability. The truth is, the skill hasn't gained much with this patch, that's probably why they didn't nerf it. Or if they did it was just a little bit, haven't really checked.

There is the fact that you need to use it with LMP or GMP , and LMP/GMP now double dip ( negatively ). So you need more than 100 % increase physical/projectile to just compensate GMP effect on bleeding.

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Xymordos wrote:

I actually crit for roughly 100k mixed damage, calculated. 8.5k combined damage with 1172% crit multiplier. My dps display is higher than 100k.

Enemy will bleed for ~100k physical dps if they walk.

is this with a bow or 2h sword?

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Malone wrote:

There is the fact that you need to use it with LMP or GMP , and LMP/GMP now double dip ( negatively ). So you need more than 100 % increase physical/projectile to just compensate GMP.

well you can just rely on pierce and careful positioning if you don't want to sacrifice the damage too much

So anyone with magnate tested it?
Point blank?
It will be very nice to see GGG response here.

my current setup has close to 100 % pierce and I feel a lot more confortable with GMP rather than with LMP... ( but still viable maybe )

In any case going single target is not really an option..

A lot of people expected a DOT boost but at the end it's more a nerf for everyone, except if you go all-in spec in it but in that case I am not sure that's really worth it.

A level 18 used to do 25.9%+129.3%=155.2% and now it only does 22.7%+113.5%=136.2%. You need an increased 14% to reach old DoT level.

Starting area for Ranger has 44% increased projectile damage, Scion has 38% Duelist has 36%, Shadow has 24% so on puncture without LESS modifier, it's a damage boost (IF increased projectile damage apply on DoT).

If projectile modifier do apply, LMP/GMP/fork/chain LESS projectile modifier would logically be applied both on hit and on the dot. With a 30% LESS modifier, the base damage would be 95.34% instead of 136.2%, requiring 62.8% increased DoT damage to be equivalent. With a 50% LESS, you would need 128% increased DoT damage to be even with now.

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raics wrote:

Puncture always multiplicatively double-dipped in Vulnerability. The truth is, the skill hasn't gained much with this patch, that's probably why they didn't nerf it. Or if they did it was just a little bit, haven't really checked.

I think what he meant is that the "Cursed ennemies takes X % more physical damage" now apply both on the initial hit and on the dot, instead of only on the hit previously.

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Xymordos wrote:

I actually crit for roughly 100k mixed damage, calculated. 8.5k combined damage with 1172% crit multiplier. My dps display is higher than 100k.

Enemy will bleed for ~100k physical dps if they walk.

Mixed damage? Does it really work?
When reading "Bleeding targets take X% of the Physical Damage Dealt per second" I understood that puncture DoT would be based only on the physical part of the initial hit, and not just be a physical dot based on the whole initial hit.

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hrapvlesu wrote:

Point blank?

I doubt it will work, since the gem explicitely says "projectile attacks". However, the quality bonus "increased projectile damage" should work.

is it confirmed that lmp/gmp affects puncture(as well as burning/poison arrow) so bad because of the negative multiplicative double dip?

i'm cooking up a ludicrous bleeder build right now and this seems to be quite critical to its potential

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NotYourConcern wrote:

...

Only the physical portion gets counted.

Vulnerability buffs the initial strike of puncture once, then the bleeding damage gets buffed by the increased physical damage AND the increased debuff damage

all took into account, I prefer the old dot mechanism. The new one is just a nerf and a lot confusing.