1.0.5b Patch Notes

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happybirthday wrote:

Cast on death working with remote mine was obviously a bug, but I don't see why going into a demon mod map and suicide summoning spectres would be considered a broken mechanic? Can someone explain why the gem and summoners were outright kicked in the teeth? We were only strong in relation to other builds when using the CoD + remote mine exploit.

Summoners are decent at the moment but they obviously aren't as strong as other builds at high end because summoners don't scale as well. Nerfing CoD without giving summoners anything in return is a bad move and I don't see the rationale for nerfing a build that is arguable more tedious to play when no longer giving any reward for it?

Hopefully the 1.06 summoner changes (buffs, I hope?) resolve these issues because snapshotting is real annoying and if they did remove it and compensated summoners in some way, I'd be happy with these design decisions.

Finally someone who gets it. Im going to go ahead and assume you don't use soultaker.

Oh im all for buffs. I've always been. Shadows and witches need a buff. CI needs a buff. Summoner and spellcasters need a buff. Evasion needs a buff. I'm in favour for more buffs than you are. The only thing i took offense with was the invalid comparisons raised, the language used and trying to claim that a fix was a nerf. That is all. None of you got your builds nerfed. You just got to enjoy an unintended boost. Buffs will come in time, as they always do and as they always have done.

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Warzone129 wrote:

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happybirthday wrote:

Cast on death working with remote mine was obviously a bug, but I don't see why going into a demon mod map and suicide summoning spectres would be considered a broken mechanic? Can someone explain why the gem and summoners were outright kicked in the teeth? We were only strong in relation to other builds when using the CoD + remote mine exploit.

Summoners are decent at the moment but they obviously aren't as strong as other builds at high end because summoners don't scale as well. Nerfing CoD without giving summoners anything in return is a bad move and I don't see the rationale for nerfing a build that is arguable more tedious to play when no longer giving any reward for it?

Hopefully the 1.06 summoner changes (buffs, I hope?) resolve these issues because snapshotting is real annoying and if they did remove it and compensated summoners in some way, I'd be happy with these design decisions.

Finally someone who gets it. Im going to go ahead and assume you don't use soultaker.

soul taker allows u to use mana whore skills like cyclone and benefit with loh, also makes u ignore mana leach. fact is everyone with a soul taker is still enjoying their builds, u on the other hand can no longer play ur sofiathemonster and u are here crying now as a result

Summoner is a very defensive spec that works around reflect/corrupting blood, has meat shields to soak up a lot of damage and provides great party support. You shouldn't expect to do the same damage as an offensive melee character.

Summoner still remains an insane farmer and a very cheap and effective first character in a league.

The problem with minions in high level maps is not their damage output but their survivability. These skills were designed to be used constantly, replacing your minions as you lose them - which doesn't really work with the most effective ones (Specters). Sure, having insanely high damage was a good workaround for the problem. I am looking forward to the summoner patch to see if some of the new skills can help.

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KissTheBlade wrote:

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Warzone129 wrote:

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happybirthday wrote:

Cast on death working with remote mine was obviously a bug, but I don't see why going into a demon mod map and suicide summoning spectres would be considered a broken mechanic? Can someone explain why the gem and summoners were outright kicked in the teeth? We were only strong in relation to other builds when using the CoD + remote mine exploit.

Summoners are decent at the moment but they obviously aren't as strong as other builds at high end because summoners don't scale as well. Nerfing CoD without giving summoners anything in return is a bad move and I don't see the rationale for nerfing a build that is arguable more tedious to play when no longer giving any reward for it?

Hopefully the 1.06 summoner changes (buffs, I hope?) resolve these issues because snapshotting is real annoying and if they did remove it and compensated summoners in some way, I'd be happy with these design decisions.

Finally someone who gets it. Im going to go ahead and assume you don't use soultaker.

soul taker allows u to use mana whore skills like cyclone and benefit with loh, also makes u ignore mana leach. fact is everyone with a soul taker is still enjoying their builds, u on the other hand can no longer play ur sofiathemonster and u are here crying now as a result

Cant balance my mana- buy noobtaker.

its not about balancing mana , skills like cyclone cost too much mana to support after 2 auras scrub

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Zed_ wrote:

Summoner is a very defensive spec that works around reflect/corrupting blood, has meat shields to soak up a lot of damage and provides great party support. You shouldn't expect to do the same damage as an offensive melee character.

Summoner still remains an insane farmer and a very cheap and effective first character in a league.

The problem with minions in high level maps is not their damage output but their survivability. These skills were designed to be used constantly, replacing your minions as you lose them - which doesn't really work with the most effective ones (Specters). Sure, having insanely high damage was a good workaround for the problem. I am looking forward to the summoner patch to see if some of the new skills can help.

I said that cod needed to be toned down a lot. Not sure why it needed removing. that's all.

Not everyone wants to farm with mf on low lvl maps.

But yes ur right id rather be able to scale minion hp over dmg but at least cod was something.

Im pretty sure that even with support gems coming it wont be able to fix the problem that summoners cant dps bosses before all their minions go poof!

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KissTheBlade wrote:

its not about balancing mana , skills like cyclone cost too much mana to support after 2 auras scrub

Cyclone dps with a soultaker is tickle dps. I see them all the time in 6 man 78 maps tickling white mobs for 20 second to kill one. Must be that build you copied :)

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Warzone129 wrote:

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happybirthday wrote:

Cast on death working with remote mine was obviously a bug, but I don't see why going into a demon mod map and suicide summoning spectres would be considered a broken mechanic? Can someone explain why the gem and summoners were outright kicked in the teeth? We were only strong in relation to other builds when using the CoD + remote mine exploit.

Summoners are decent at the moment but they obviously aren't as strong as other builds at high end because summoners don't scale as well. Nerfing CoD without giving summoners anything in return is a bad move and I don't see the rationale for nerfing a build that is arguable more tedious to play when no longer giving any reward for it?

Hopefully the 1.06 summoner changes (buffs, I hope?) resolve these issues because snapshotting is real annoying and if they did remove it and compensated summoners in some way, I'd be happy with these design decisions.

Finally someone who gets it. Im going to go ahead and assume you don't use soultaker.

I don't know what you mean? Practically everyone who plays summoners knows these things. Summoners don't scale off gear, instead they derive their strengths from summoner mechanics. In exchange for relying more so on mechanics than gear, they obviously scale poorly into the endgame. It's not a big secret, one trade off for another; I think pretty much everyone knows this, especially the developers.

There are a lot of drawbacks to playing summoner, the biggest: needing to waste time snapshotting - not just once, every time a minion dies. While summoners technically can probably clear every single map at a snails pace in mediocre gear, giving a summoner better gear won't increase clear speed much because summoners have a glass ceiling due to their mechanics. Nerfing summoner mechanics is severely gimping the build, a build that already had a lot of drawbacks to it's playstyle and now no longer has a reward for it.

Again, it's just bad design decision unless there is something to compensate in 1.06.

Another thing, I still don't get why CoD should not work on minions at all? Why would dying to summon minions be considered problematic from the standpoint of balance? It doesn't even give summoners an advantage over builds since we'd have to take a 10% xp hit just to get decent spectres.

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Warzone129 wrote:

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KissTheBlade wrote:

its not about balancing mana , skills like cyclone cost too much mana to support after 2 auras scrub

Cyclone dps with a soultaker is tickle dps. I see them all the time in 6 man 78 maps tickling white mobs for 20 second to kill one. Must be that build you copied :)

you know you can go dual wield , you dolt?

even with a block build 70+ block u can reach 20+ k dps

which is more than what ur summoner is doin bro

dats just pure fact in ur face