Let's talk about the 800LB gorilla, Vaal Gems

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

The mechanic of dropping all the charges when you enter a new instance is there to keep people from using them to break a staged encounter. We get that.

Actually, I don't. You can break every non-Map staged encounter in the game by using portal scrolls. Who cares if you do it a little faster by charging up your Limit Break?

Well some vaal gems are outright amazing. Vaal spark is a must for any crit spellcasting build. Link it with trap + lmp + added lightning and you can clear huge sections of a map 3-5 times per map.

Vaal immortal call/molten shell/cyclone/siphon(especially this one) are all very strong.

Other vaal gems like rain of arrows are pretty lackluster and need at least more damage added to them or more CC(make the rooting effect last at least 10 seconds).

Yeah most are just shitty. Some are situational good (which i feel is what they intended), like Double Strike or Corpse Explosion. Heard Frost Nova (forgot the name here) is pretty good for strongboxes atleast in norm/cruel.

"

kasub wrote:

Well some vaal gems are outright amazing. Vaal spark is a must for any crit spellcasting build. Link it with trap + lmp + added lightning and you can clear huge sections of a map 3-5 times per map.

Vaal immortal call/molten shell/cyclone/siphon(especially this one) are all very strong.

Other vaal gems like rain of arrows are pretty lackluster and need at least more damage added to them or more CC(make the rooting effect last at least 10 seconds).

No one is claiming they aren't strong... or even fun. The claim is that they're not worth the associated costs. Giving up a 4L for your Spark is fine for those times when you could use it, but thing is that you didn't need to use it. You did it just for fun. Those "huge sections" could be cleared by your regular skills or you wouldn't have stood a chance in the area to begin with. The cool down is just too big of a drawback for it to be worth using. I'd rather see them be unreliable on a timer. Have like a 20% chance to cast on a 5 second timer. Then at least you could use them occasionally.

From personal experience, Vaal Frost Nova is indeed very good at clearing stronboxes. Use it as soon as the box is opened and mine (which is only linked to an Added Chaos) kills everything that isn't a rare or an exile (and sometimes it'll even kill those).

With the right build, Vaal Burning Arrow seems like it'd be rather good with LMP + Added Fire + Increased AoE attached to it. The soul count is short enough that you could use it on a semi-regular basis.

"

The claim is that they're not worth the associated costs.

Vaal siphon/spark/immortal call/cyclone are easily worth the cost and will dramatically increase your clearing time(or survivability with ic). Premaps in merciless they kind of suck due to inferior mob density but in maps you get to use them several times. Vaal spark specifically can easily destroy bosses with one cast.

I haven't looked for all vaal gems yet so I'm not sure how many "great" ones there are. I agree many are hugely inferior like groundslam/doublestrike/rain of arrows.

My build has space for a 4L so I filled it in with vaal molten shell. As a max block character I am decently tanky and I can run up to a map boss with it on and the adds make my shell explode so many times it's like CoC discharge. I also think it has potential with that unique that let's you curse yourself because temp chains significantly increases the duration.

For people in new leagues, these are fun. If you are sitting on an OP build in default, or comparing its usefulness to your main skill, I think that's not a correct compare. They are meant to be bailout spells and I'm betting it will become more clear in the future. So you can either try them out for yourself or wait for something to be the next thing.

Is the 800lb gorilla really these threads with people who spend 5 minutes testing and the, oh that sucks. Poor design, etc. You a designer? You know what's best for everyone do you? Some people are interested in only OP, all the time, to power to grind it seems. And everything else sucks. Other people enjoy a little mixing up of the action and will figure out what you ignore or can't be bothered with.

I used to think Vaal Ice Nova sucked, but I was wrong. I was very very wrong. It just deletes giant waves and it's my favorite spell to use at a strongbox.

As i said, Vaal gems are good, some very good, other like GS suck

but there is one thing to fix on them

the fact that the soul counter is set on the instance instead of the gem(and make it reset if take a tp) a bit like potions are, they keep the same quanity unless you go to town