Endurance Charges Overpowered?

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VictorDoom wrote:

theyre not overpowered for god sake, melee takes enough damage anyway thats why everyone says melee sucks, nerfing endurance charges will make melee actually unplayable.


/thread

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FamousTrip wrote:

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Zakaluka wrote:

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FamousTrip wrote:

Armor is already significantly more valuable than evasion.

I believe strongly that evasion provides a more universal, and significantly better defense point-for-point. In most situations, not all. After having spent plenty of time in endgame using both setups: a 7-endurance armour stacker, and a block/acrobatics pure evasion melee character. The evasion character can wade in worry-free more often than the armour character. The armour character has to turn tail and run far more often than the evasion character.

I've experienced this first hand, in endgame, in hardcore league. A few times. I'm pretty sure most people making these kinds of comparisons haven't spent a terribly long time in evasion land.

Of course, if you try to plot effective health vs armour, then overlay effective health vs evasion - evasion will look pretty terrible in comparison. The comparison lies, though : evasion works against a larger percent of your damage intake than damage does, so the two curves have completely different characteristics. It's not fair to put them next to each other, at all.

It's very hard to compare the two quantitatively. There are a few very specific niche situations where the comparison holds water, and evasion actually does fall behind armour: notably, in a situation where you're facing all melee opponents that only deal low or moderate physical damage. If even a fraction of the damage you're tanking is elemental, or chaos, or projectiles, evasion performs much better than a comparison to the armour formula suggests. If your melee opponents do very high damage, evasion once again does considerably better.

But your doing your whole analysis without even taking into account that evasion is reliant on enemies having low accuracy.

Your right that most haven't spent a terribly long time in evasion land though, because evasion characters are prone to death. I'm curious as to what build you used that you could wade into hordes of enemies worry free endgame. Specifically how you managed enough points for block, acro, and enough HP to not get 1 shot by big yellow mobs that managed to hit you.

I'm curious if you think evasion is a better stat, point for point than armor, can you surmise why most players, even experienced ones who understand how armor works, still go for armor over evasion, particularly in things like Iron Reflexes. So far in favor of it that often times even marauders with relatively low dexterity will venture all the way to IR, just to turn their relatively low evasion into armor?

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skarrmania wrote:

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koticgood wrote:

Stun: 40% AoE groundslams don't count as melee range. The entire issue is that if you go into actual melee range, you are crossing a safety line that most people can sense just by playing the game. It may be fine for a while, but once yo start doing maps, it becomes quite apparent how unreasonable it is to expect to mitigate the damage. The problem is the inherent doom of someone who is on the front lines (read: melee range). Not having endurance charges and being in melee range is just suicidal. 100% stun threshold reduction is not going to help you.

Not sure how I respond to that, if you consider that certain skills marked as melee do not count as melee, what else is left. I heard this before in other threads, "Groundslam, lightining strike, leap slam dont count as melee"....there goes 50% of melee skills....what else is left?

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VictorDoom wrote:

theyre not overpowered for god sake, melee takes enough damage anyway thats why everyone says melee sucks, nerfing endurance charges will make melee actually unplayable.


/thread

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Strill wrote:

the other charges are nowhere near as useful?

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Hollystine wrote:

I think they already work on Endurance Charge issue.

The thing is, they need to find something to avoid the need to play with Endurance Charge,
but the problem is balancing Melee Characters without it !

My opinion, they need to remove Endurance Charge for reworking, and maybe think about put
Flat Armor in the Skill Tree, that is a thinkable solution =)