Riposte and Reckoning can BOTH be used AND triggered at the same time...

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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Grimmnyr wrote:

All I could suggest - make parry possible only with eva, ar/eva, es/eva shields, as they are usually small and could be used for parrying.

But if you are big like Marauder, even those big shields feel weightless. You can still parry with big shields, you just have to be the type of person who can lift them like they are a 90 kg dumbbell.

It's not really all about you being able to carry the shield around, I don't believe such big shields can be centered so well as those that are meant for parrying, which makes it much harder to do it properly. But yeah, that is kinda off topic already and too much of IRL nonsense going on. ^_^

As a 2h using vengeance i am probably going to look for better gems for the socket space. Currently linked with melee, LL, LGoH. It pairs alright with static because it usually triggers before static so I have a little life regen before the giant pulse orb of static starts. But, the damage is junk due to cool down, higher proc rate with Q is meaningless, would rather have shorter cool down. Life regen with both gems and some inc aoe is very minor. Maintaining endurance charges elsewhere so stun/ec is meaningless. Curse on hit is also useless because the most important mobs to curse (enf, temp) are ranged. Anything next to me I am leeching off of. So, end of story, underwhelming and will probably swap out.

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lolozori wrote:

So you guys think melee need a nerf again?

YESSSSS! Melee opopopopop. I feel the need 4 NERF again. Maybe in 1.4 we can change it so melees aren't allowed to use weapons or armor with a higher itemlevel than 1/4 of the chars level. Or maybe two new starting points like "gets no life bonus from str" & "all mobs have culling strike on you". Really guys, melee so stronk it is not even funny - plx more NERFSSSSS!

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Riposte should be restricted to dual wield only, with the proviso that dual wield block gets a bit of a bump, since it's so shit right now.

I say this because in real life a riposte is a counterattack after a parry, and a parry is a block/deflection by a weapon, usually a sword.

If you have a shield, you're probably never going to parry because it's inefficient compared to straight-up blocking.

I can't believe you're arguing to nerf melee...

I'm all about balance, but I think having 3 counter attack options for a shield is pretty badass and fun. It allows the melee user to use a single target main skill rather than having to rely on melee splash, static strike, or molten strike. I think the way it works right now is pretty darn fine.

If I'm not mistaken people used to smack their enemies with shields just as much as using them to deflect attacks, so to me it makes sense that you get more counter attack oppurtunity with a shield in hand rather than another weapon. A weapon is small and it takes more focus to block with it than a shield. A shield is larger u can block with it while attacking with your weapon.

The only use they have is that you can see when you block.

I use all three in my gloves with PcoC

Each of them does over 10k DPS around 79% crit chance. They have a 95% crit chance when at max power charges and DPS jumps to about 30% higher.

I now use Doedre's flask so having PCoC is redundant and I'm looking for a better support. I'm thinking about adding added lightning for shocks, or life leech for a boost.

TBH i'm not sure what to add as the defensive ability they provide is awesome. I can afk while drinking a coffee and unless it's a 97% added with 320% crit and vulnerability, I can usually sit still, go toilet or drink my coffee.

Cheers

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I say this because in real life a riposte is a counterattack after a parry, and a parry is a block/deflection by a weapon, usually a sword.

You are holding a weapon, so you could actually parry (and riposte) with it irrespective of whether you have a shield in the other hand. I suppose you could even parry with a two handed weapon, if you're up against someone else with a two-hander. On the other hand, you would have problems parrying a two-handed weapon attack with a dagger.

It would make sense for Riposte to have a hit chance or crit chance bonus, given that you have deflected the attack and have an inside track on the target. Memories of my fencing days....

And then there's blocking missiles - fine to some extent with a shield, but I really don't see how's it's possible to block missiles with a weapon. So, realistically, shields should have a decent block chance against both missiles and melee, but single hand/dual wield should have a missile block penalty. Neither Riposte nor Reckoning really make sense against missile attacks.

Spells, probably the same as missiles, but an even bigger penalty, I can't see a shield or dagger doing much to block a fireball :)


BUT - it's a game, and none of these interactions are modeled, so we can just look at game balance, and in that sense, I would say all three skills are a bit underwhelming. I even played around with Vengeance on a six link armour with Marohi Erqi, with lots of damage mods and increased AoE. This is about the best case for this skill - very high damage weapon, increased AoE and no attack speed to worry about, and it was still a bit "meh". It does about half the damage of sweep with the same supports. Given the proc chance and cooldown, it doesn't provide that much of a bonus.

Now that active melee skills have been reduced to their level one costs, even "free" doesn't have the same ring to it anymore. Even if they are Mana free, there is a cost in terms of gem/link space.

I use them where available and if I have some spare links. Reckoning and Vengeance I optimise for LGoH or Life/Mana Leech with a bit of damage chucked in. Riposte is the only one where I think about damage, really, and because it's a single hit skill, I might use Leech, but not LGoH.


So, IRL, the skills need a nerf. In terms of the game, they need a boost if anything!

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eralduspr wrote:

That's really cool and all, but... isn't that, you know... kinda OP???

No, it's not OP at all, unless you think ~5K damage is OP, which you'd already know if you'd actually tried using the skills.