why sceptre tho, go for profane wand, its better for mobility
Was thinking about it, but with Scepters +40% ele damage (void scepters), DPS is way higher - and currently only dps is my problem - i have enought mobiliy and survi (while still tring to get some serious boots. ring and gloves, as those 3 slotsa are my worst).
Just spend around 300c just for alteration + annulment... used about 10 annulments (had 1 or 2 already)... and still wasn't able to get 2nd scepter rdy for crafting -.-'
If you guys have any spare Veiled wepon, i would gladly pick it up :D still tring to get lvl 3 crafting for spell dmg + non chaos as extra chaos -.-'
why sceptre tho, go for profane wand, its better for mobility
Was thinking about it, but with Scepters +40% ele damage (void scepters), DPS is way higher - and currently only dps is my problem - i have enought mobiliy and survi (while still tring to get some serious boots. ring and gloves, as those 3 slotsa are my worst).
Just spend around 300c just for alteration + annulment... used about 10 annulments (had 1 or 2 already)... and still wasn't able to get 2nd scepter rdy for crafting -.-'
If you guys have any spare Veiled wepon, i would gladly pick it up :D still tring to get lvl 3 crafting for spell dmg + non chaos as extra chaos -.-'
Have you actually done the calculations in PoB to show that 80% increased elemental damage provides more overall DPS than 28% increased cast speed (or 100% increased global crit chance from daggers)? I just find that surprising, though not unbelievable. Personally, I would always pick profane wands for both offensive and defensive reasons.
In any event, I just unlocked that mod a few days ago, so I'm happy to help with crafting if you want to PM me in-game later.
why sceptre tho, go for profane wand, its better for mobility
Was thinking about it, but with Scepters +40% ele damage (void scepters), DPS is way higher - and currently only dps is my problem - i have enought mobiliy and survi (while still tring to get some serious boots. ring and gloves, as those 3 slotsa are my worst).
Just spend around 300c just for alteration + annulment... used about 10 annulments (had 1 or 2 already)... and still wasn't able to get 2nd scepter rdy for crafting -.-'
If you guys have any spare Veiled wepon, i would gladly pick it up :D still tring to get lvl 3 crafting for spell dmg + non chaos as extra chaos -.-'
Have you actually done the calculations in PoB to show that 80% increased elemental damage provides more overall DPS than 28% increased cast speed (or 100% increased global crit chance from daggers)? I just find that surprising, though not unbelievable. Personally, I would always pick profane wands for both offensive and defensive reasons.
In any event, I just unlocked that mod a few days ago, so I'm happy to help with crafting if you want to PM me in-game later.
There might be something wrong with my PoB... i was testing 40% ele dmg versus 18% cast speed - and scepter was wining. Now when i compare it (chaning on my scepter in editor, removed ele dmg, added 18% cast sped), i would have increased dmg from ~315k up to ~340k... what's even more suprisng, my PoB shows me that putting Cast speed instead of elemental dmg will increase SINGLE HIT as well. What the heck? I would understood the DPS, but how the hell cast speed affect single hit? and more than pure elemental dmg? xD need to reset the whole PoB i think...
Edit:
I just downloaded newest PoB, and checked exaclky same crafted profane wand vs Void scepter - Scepter provides both - higher DPS and single hit dmg, so i will stay with my scepter... and maybe one day i will craft the 2nd one as well -.-' today again, 4 annulment and about 400 alteration... even use 2x to make an inprint of magic item from einhar, when i finnaly got extra chaos... nothing working -.-' each time, when i have rare, annulment smashing the extra chaos dmg -.-'
Last edited by Zeratul_PL#2990 on Oct 3, 2019, 4:13:18 AM
okay, why void sceptres, and not sambar ones then? isnt penetration better? or u craft penetration instead extra chaos on them? i dont get it how u gain more dps with void bases in compare with profane, although u can have too much cast speed so profane's dont boost ur cs too much, idk
okay, why void sceptres, and not sambar ones then? isnt penetration better? or u craft penetration instead extra chaos on them? i dont get it how u gain more dps with void bases in compare with profane, although u can have too much cast speed so profane's dont boost ur cs too much, idk
I made very simple comparision in PoB (had to DL newest verions):
i made exacly same mods (multimod + ele as extra chaos), and put those into:
a) Void Scepter +40% ele
b) Profane +14%cast speed
And i compared the resoults in PoB. Void scepter gave me some serious advantage, but i can't remember now.
Also, compared options with +18-20% chaos dmg vs 10% penetration = extra chaos is way better. Was checking the crafting mods as well - still decided to ignore penetration for more raw dmg + extra chaos from raw dmg.
This build is more focused on map clrearing, than boss killing - for that more dmg is bewtter than ress pene, as normal mobs have pretty low resistance.
But i'm not an expert in such calulations etc - Enki or other "calcualtion maniacs" could analys is deeper probably :)
Just use PoB and compare by yourself :)
Just changed Your Wands for my Scepter (added non-chaos as extra chaos and spell dmg - i need to unlock that recepie), and scepters will bring about 40k higher dps :)
Last edited by Zeratul_PL#2990 on Oct 3, 2019, 5:39:00 PM
I'm trying this build with Elemancer instead of Paragon of Calamity, as was discussed earlier in the league. My gear is FAR from optimized. Right now I've taken the Anima Stone/Primordial Chain route and am aiming for a 6L staff for the 4 golem types + Meat Shield and Empower/cwdt. Lots of testing and levelling remains to be done, but here are some initial observations:
1. The damage feels really good. Increased effect of golem buffs is insane when stacked together. Lightning Warp is faster than I've ever seen it, physical damage reduction is approaching 30%, which is HUGE. Immunity to elemental ailments is a great bonus and frees up a flask suffix.
2. Primordial Harmony makes it really easy to keep golems alive, so I'm thinking Empower is the way to go, at least for regular mapping. I have not done t16 guardians yet (waiting for at least 5L Inpulsa's), but I am concerned that they might get 1-shotted by high-level bosses, and it takes a good 8-10 seconds to summon all 9 golems. If this is the case, cwdt would seem to be the better route. Trying to recast golems during Uber Elder fight would probably be a death sentence.
3. Not being able to do elemental damage reflect maps sucks.
4. Losing the amulet slot makes it tougher to find life leech. Right now I'm using Doryani's Invitation, which is definitely not ideal. Anyone have any suggestions?
5. Meat Shield is an excellent defense spell. Having a bunch of golems as body guards deflects a LOT of damage. On the flip-side...
6. When I do get hit, it's often hard. I am struggling to get above 3k life at level 80 right now, which is not encouraging. I expect getting to 3.5k will be easy once I have Inpulsa's and a few more life passives, but after that, I'm not sure where to go. Vermilion ring will be great if I can find a Shaper's one and mod it myself, but losing an amulet and three jewel slots in a build like this hurts as much as you would expect (a LOT). I'm also losing the belt slot at the moment, which is potentially another few hundred life. There's no life on my shield, but I'm not planning on using a shield for very long, anyway. I also can't work in both cwdt setups. I'm thinking maybe I should sacrifice the Armageddon Brand and Blind for Immortal Call and Increased Duration?
Enki, any comments are welcome. I really need help balancing this new power with survivability--maybe I should settle for fewer golems?
Edit: forgot my I managed to score a Shaper's ring with both Assassin's Mark on hit and life gained for each enemy hit by spells. Perhaps life leech is not required, in this case. I'll look for a stygian vise with high life and resists tonight.
Edit 2: at level 87 with 4.4k hp. Life and mana are definitely way too low and I don't know what else to do with them aside from sacrifice some of the primordial stuff. Damage is still very strong. I don't think PoB calculates golem buff bonuses from Liege of the Primordial or Elemancer, so I modified my items accordingly and added in 114% shock effect to get 300k Arc Shaper DPS, 430k with flasks up. I think there's still plenty of room for growth there. Still, I just managed to do Chimera deathless. The speed boost this league is huge for avoiding dangerous attacks.
I'v been going all and total in with the golem buffs as well. So Primordial Chain and two eminences for me with total of 9 golems. 1.5% minion regen nodes from tree. I'm at 5k life now, mana is not an issue because enduring mana flasks are OP ( you can queue up the usages). I have +minion levels and supported by minion life helm where most of the golems are.
I decided to use the insane Stone Golem regen to counter the effect of going dual Shimmeron Wands. They provide INSANE damage for their price, just make sure to get the 10% multi per power charge and you need power charge nodes from tree.
To simulate effect of nine golems in PoB, add the following lines to one of your flasks:
450% increased effect of buffs granted by your golems
180% increased damage
I'm at work so the wording might be off, but this works in PoB because the new node on tree for 70% effect has been implemented and the same wording can be used. Second line is for the 20% damage per summoned golem which PoB also does not compute.
This league I really wanted to try Orb of Storms + chain support as a clearing skill and it is pretty nuts. It's like firing multiple arcs at the same time on a huge area. For single target I have slower proj. gloves for Ball Lightning. Casting Ball Lightning inside OoS also procs it's damage.
I also made sure to include cold damage in my spells to freeze. Because of the dual Shimmerons, the crit chance is almost 100% with diamond flask so I get a lot of freezes as well. The thing with OoS is that it applies it's damage very quickly from the time of pressing the cast button and it touches a lot of monsters on the screen. Arc for example takes slightly longer to chain. I have survived many high level legion encounters because of this.
Ball Lightning has always been pretty insane single target with slower projectiles and it procs the OoS as well.
I also use cast when damage taken immortal call because it helps to lower the degen from the Shimmerons when needed.
I think the most beautiful thing about this build is that I could easily take almost any spell that works with crits and just swap it in. I could switch to arc. I could go frost bolt + ice nova. The dps for that should be at least 5 million.
And yes, it sucks that elemental reflect maps are a no go. Damage would most likely be enough to drop Mastermind of Discord and go Paragon of Calamity instead. Would solve the reflect issue and give leech as well.
Character name is SalamihaSeMaistuupi and it's not fully optimized. I need to change the boots for example.
Last edited by PalikkaApina#0699 on Oct 4, 2019, 3:37:00 AM
I'v been going all and total in with the golem buffs as well. So Primordial Chain and two eminences for me with total of 9 golems. 1.5% minion regen nodes from tree. I'm at 5k life now, mana is not an issue because enduring mana flasks are OP ( you can queue up the usages). I have +minion levels and supported by minion life helm where most of the golems are.
I decided to use the insane Stone Golem regen to counter the effect of going dual Shimmeron Wands. They provide INSANE damage for their price, just make sure to get the 10% multi per power charge and you need power charge nodes from tree.
To simulate effect of nine golems in PoB, add the following lines to one of your flasks:
450% increased effect of buffs granted by your golems
180% increased damage
I'm at work so the wording might be off, but this works in PoB because the new node on tree for 70% effect has been implemented and the same wording can be used. Second line is for the 20% damage per summoned golem which PoB also does not compute.
This league I really wanted to try Orb of Storms + chain support as a clearing skill and it is pretty nuts. It's like firing multiple arcs at the same time on a huge area. For single target I have slower proj. gloves for Ball Lightning. Casting Ball Lightning inside OoS also procs it's damage.
I also made sure to include cold damage in my spells to freeze. Because of the dual Shimmerons, the crit chance is almost 100% with diamond flask so I get a lot of freezes as well. The thing with OoS is that it applies it's damage very quickly from the time of pressing the cast button and it touches a lot of monsters on the screen. Arc for example takes slightly longer to chain. I have survived many high level legion encounters because of this.
Ball Lightning has always been pretty insane single target with slower projectiles and it procs the OoS as well.
I also use cast when damage taken immortal call because it helps to lower the degen from the Shimmerons when needed.
I think the most beautiful thing about this build is that I could easily take almost any spell that works with crits and just swap it in. I could switch to arc. I could go frost bolt + ice nova. The dps for that should be at least 5 million.
And yes, it sucks that elemental reflect maps are a no go. Damage would most likely be enough to drop Mastermind of Discord and go Paragon of Calamity instead. Would solve the reflect issue and give leech as well.
Character name is SalamihaSeMaistuupi and it's not fully optimized. I need to change the boots for example.
Thanks for the feedback! Glad to know someone out there is actually trying something similar--though your build certainly differs from Enki's in a lot of ways. You do raise an interesting point that this blueprint could be used to support a number of different primary damage skills. Personally, I absolutely love using Arc, and Enki has put a ton of planning into the architecture of this build, so I'm taking a much narrower approach to incorporating extra golems and such, but I'd be curious to see how yours is performing in end-game content.
About your PoB stopgap--i get adding the 450% increased effect of buffs granted by golems, but why are you also adding 180% increased damage? It seems like the first mod should automatically encompass the second; does PoB not account for the flame golem buff at all?
Most of my equipment is decent at this point, so I'm focusing on collecting the currency necessary to multimod a 6L staf. I had one almost ready last Sunday and then ACCIDENTALLY VENDORED IT, flushing down the toilet 6 ex in crafts plus the base. (The base on its own is currently listed for dozens of exalts right now, even ones that still need to be regaled and annulled.) But it should be a HUGE single-target damage boost when I do get it into place. I'll move the Arc setup to the staff and put the golems in my Inpulsa's with an Empower, which will increase all golem buffs by at least one additional increment that will then be applied at 550% effect. I'll swap out controlled destruction for Empower at level 4 which, with the +2 to socketed support gems craft, will boost my Arc to level 28 and all my support gems to level 22/23. I expect Shaper DPS to almost double from that. I will definitely report back with my findings once this is all done.
Last edited by WorderMostFoul#7154 on Oct 4, 2019, 6:39:39 PM
About your PoB stopgap--i get adding the 450% increased effect of buffs granted by golems, but why are you also adding 180% increased damage? It seems like the first mod should automatically encompass the second; does PoB not account for the flame golem buff at all?
It doesn't account for it at all. You can see this if you go the calculation tab and see what the generic damage increased number is the sum of.
The 180% is for the 20% damage per golem on the ascendancy passive Liege of the Primordial (9x20=180). The flame golem buff is in addition to this and is covered by the 450% buff effect. So the total generic damage with nine golems is:
9 x 20 + 5.5 * [flame golem buff].
The 5.5 comes from 450% increased. This comes to 316% increased generic damage with 9 golems and level 20 flame golem, two eminences and buff effect from tree. Over 300% generic damage is very nice as you well know. :)
"
WorderMostFoul wrote:
Most of my equipment is decent at this point, so I'm focusing on collecting the currency necessary to multimod a 6L staf. I had one almost ready last Sunday and then ACCIDENTALLY VENDORED IT, flushing down the toilet 6 ex in crafts plus the base. (The base on its own is currently listed for dozens of exalts right now, even ones that still need to be regaled and annulled.) But it should be a HUGE single-target damage boost when I do get it into place. I'll move the Arc setup to the staff and put the golems in my Inpulsa's with an Empower, which will increase all golem buffs by at least one additional increment that will then be applied at 550% effect. I'll swap out controlled destruction for Empower at level 4 which, with the +2 to socketed support gems craft, will boost my Arc to level 28 and all my support gems to level 22/23. I expect Shaper DPS to almost double from that. I will definitely report back with my findings once this is all done.
Oh god I'm very sorry about your mishap. :(
I have a very serious case of altoholisim and never push my builds very far. For example I have already pushed 4 elementalists to maps with the 9 golem setup. Firetrap DOT is pretty sick with this setup as well. :)
Dual Shimmerons is a budget option of course. It is probably by far the highest damage budget option in the game though.
With that char I have done T15 maps with zero problems with damage. Did L81 temple as well and architects die very quickly. But of course my build is much more of a glass cannon because of the Shimmeron degen and some maps are a no go as well. It's just a super super high damage budget option for crit builds. And I just don't like pushing builds to the end for some reason. I'm sitting on 6 ex now.
Last edited by PalikkaApina#0699 on Oct 5, 2019, 3:23:10 AM
