0.9.5 Patch Notes

The flask changes certainly nerfs avatar of fire a lot by making life leech much more desirable. It would say avatar of fire would hardly even need any changes now, aside form maybe spreading out the elemental weapon damage by a small bit.

While flasks in general might be OK (due to the increased base values), surgeon's flask seem very pointless now, in fact not even viable in anything but certain class or two running specific builds (attack speed and critical chance).
Surgeons flasks have been nerfed by 800%, technically 2000% from before if you include the increased flask charge consumption also.

I understand surgeon's needed nerfing, but a more reasonable value would have been 2 (or even 3), not 1. You guys need to get things closer to right the first time you do a change — the original nerf to 8 was not enough, but now it was just shot to oblivion. It also seems unfair that avenger's gets 3x the charges as surgeon's does when previously it was less than 2x.

Characters need to mostly use AoE to be effective at the moment, and multiple criticals do not trigger on AoE skills. If you have a character with extremely high critical chance like 33.3%, and they kill monsters in 3 shots with their skill (huge over-estimate, generally half the monsters will die in 1-2 shots to AoEs), and they're fighting 4 monsters, they're only getting overall an average benefit of around 17%. Logically you might think 25%, but it's not the case since a critical hit on the first or second hit would kill the monster right there.
Compared to increased charge recovery (60% max, 50% average) it's terrible.
That was just a conservative estimate as well. If you take one of my characters for example, they can kill blues in 1 to 2 hits, which give 3 charges each. Against groups of 5 monsters (pretty common), at 100% crit rate and taking 2 hits to kill, a character would gain only 13% charge benefit from such monsters. To gain 60% more charges at 20% critical chance, they'd need to take about 18 shots to kill a boss (bosses give 6, right?), or 9 shots to kill a blue.
That's maybe fine and dandy for rangers or other chars who attack 4 times a second (and hence deal less damage), but for marauders and templars or witches (be it caster or not), it's terrible.

Also with the flask changes, the ample mod (additional maximum flask charges) needs to be buffed, since the relative amount is now 40% of what it used to be.

The changes were overall a move in the right direction, but I'd say just a bit too far in that direction.

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AlienFromBeyond wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Changed how Stun Threshold Reduction works so that it makes more sense now. A 50% decrease in Stun Threshold now means that you only need to deal 50% of the previous damage to cause a stun.

So what happens if you get 100%? You stun every hit no matter how little damage you do?

Yes, but that's impossible to get to anyway.

Overall stun threshold was substantially nerfed. For instance, ground slam (or heavy blow, similar values) used to be over 100% stun reduction, which meant it took less than 50% less damage needed to stun someone.

Now, it's only about 35% stun threshold reduction, which is very low compared to before, less than half as much (equivalent to 53% in the old system, compared to about 118% which it used to have IIRC)

If you stacked up all the reduced stun threshold mods (which there are not many of) you could probably get more benefit than before, but ONLY THEN. It would cost the player a lot of damage/DPS, which is equivalent of reducing threshold (plus it actually deals damage :P), so even then it probably wouldn't be much of a gain at all.

Xapti says: "I understand surgeon's needed nerfing, but a more reasonable value would have been 2 (or even 3), not 1. You guys need to get things closer to right the first time you do a change — the original nerf to 8 was not enough, but now it was just shot to oblivion. It also seems unfair that avenger's gets 3x the charges as surgeon's does when previously it was less than 2x."



yeah come on GGG lets get your act together and get everything correct the 1st time so Xapti can stop telling you how to make your game. Honestly, it's absurd that you are forcing us to play your totally free game and making us deal with all of these issues in the beta.. really, get your act together.

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Xapti wrote:

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AlienFromBeyond wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Changed how Stun Threshold Reduction works so that it makes more sense now. A 50% decrease in Stun Threshold now means that you only need to deal 50% of the previous damage to cause a stun.

So what happens if you get 100%? You stun every hit no matter how little damage you do?

Yes, but that's impossible to get to anyway.

Actually it's incredibly easy to get. My Marauder in Legacy league has 88% Stun Threshold Reduction, and there's one last 10% reduction passive he hasn't gotten yet, and the Stun support gem on Ground Slam is only level 3 or so, so with 2 more levels on that and the passive he would have 100% Stun Threshold Reduction, and it would continue to go up over that as the support levels.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

yeah come on GGG lets get your act together and get everything correct the 1st time so Xapti can stop telling you how to make your game. Honestly, it's absurd that you are forcing us to play your totally free game and making us deal with all of these issues in the beta.. really, get your act together.

It's just criticism to make a better game. Being a yes man doesn't help for giving game feedback at all.
If you don't agree with me, make a proper argument. You don't need to get all childish and offensive about it.

I just said it should be closer to right (or the value they want) the first time — not perfect by any means. Going from 15(?) to 8 (understandable), then 8 to 1 is rather crazy — someone was thinking off for either the first part as to what the value should be, or the last part where the value should be. It just doesn't seem logical to drop something in value by a factor of 800% when the previous drop was just less than a factor of 50%.

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AlienFromBeyond wrote:

Actually it's incredibly easy to get. My Marauder in Legacy league has 88% Stun Threshold Reduction, and there's one last 10% reduction passive he hasn't gotten yet, and the Stun support gem on Ground Slam is only level 3 or so, so with 2 more levels on that and the passive he would have 100% Stun Threshold Reduction, and it would continue to go up over that as the support levels.

Maybe I'm wrong then.

What I will suggest to you though, is that you might be using using legacy gear that no longer is possible to obtain to get that lowered stun threshold, since by impossible I meant impossible following the current desired game mechanics.
But the main thing that makes me likely wrong is the support gem which I totally forgot about. For some reason I thought it was stun change (confused with the knockback), or even stun duration, but I realize now that it is actually threshold.

Edit: oh I forgot to also say — There's no real point of even getting to 100% reduction (well, very little), since 90% should be more than enough — it's as if you were dealing 10x damage to them, which is enough to stun anything I'd say, at least if you're using a hammer.

Also, I keep forgetting to put 2 messages into one post, but I guess it's not a huge deal.

Yup, not a single piece of threshold reduction gear, it's all passives/gems. And I realize 100% reduction is probably overkill, but I also wanted to make sure nothing untoward happened when you achieved that number. Imagine putting a crappy DoT on someone with that to achieve perma-stunlock.