Damage Over Time Changes - Part 1

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One or two league too late GGG, atm 50% people are playing HoWA that is totaly broken.
Please destroy this claw that is so ridiculous.
Assuming u use 2 of these claws, 7 average damages for 2000 intelligence makes 1400 flat lightning damage, don't have to say more.

Need to put that into a trash

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Pathological wrote:

They might not have been an issue but they also are not intrinsically important to the dot. It is now extremely simply to work out what your damage is going to be.

You have an ability that does damage and applies a dot.

The ability does (base damage * ability multipliers)
The dot does (base damage * base dot multiplier * dot multipliers)

It's that simple.

Let go of the "it's different, so it's more complex" mode of thinking, and you'll be just fine. It's not more complex, it's actually a lot more simple. It requires you to know which multipliers affect the direct damage and which apply to the dot damage, but it always did.

On the plus side, you can now work out the dot damage without considering the ability damage at all, and the damage each portion does is more intuitive (most people aren't using to comparing numbers and thinking about the likely result quadratically, which is what double dipping requires).

I might be out of touch with all the math here, but lets see.
Ignite/Poison/Bleed is considered to be percentage of your hit.
If you have a base fire damage if 100, a 50% inc spell damage and 50% inc fire damage, that's 200 fire damage. Let's say burn is 10% of base damage, that results in 10 burn damage +50% fire damage since spell damage does not affect burn damage. How is that a 10% of your initial hit, or am I missing something? How is that any better than just taking 10% of your hit (200 dmg) and then applying any dot multipliers (except regular multipliers that were already applied to initial hit like % inc fire dmg).

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KnyazSunny wrote:

Right now we have a complicated system (e.g some modifiers double dip, others do not. Takes a bit of research to figure things out when you are new to the game).

If I understand these changes correctly, the complexity shoots up further. Now, modifiers will be even more selective, often in non-intuitive ways (e.g fire damage still double dips. But now, something like attack damage will do nothing for bleed base damage.)

I do not understand this. Things like attack damage effecting the base were never an issue. The issue is solely with double dipping modifiers. I would have thought it would be smarter to just prevent double dipping stats from applying to the dot (e.g inc physical damage, inc fire damage), while still allowing dot modifiers to apply directly to the dot (e.g increased damage over time, increased physical damage over time etc). This game is always unnecessarily complicated.

ya exactly, why has this all become so convoluted and all over the place? Were removing double dipping... except were keeping double dipping, just making it a million times harder to understand but we think we might have got the damage potential to a reasonable place fingers crossed...

...seriously?


Cant you guys just actually remove double dipping? Remove it and let only dot increases increase the dots? Wouldnt that be far more simple to balance, far more simple for players to build around, open up far more build diversity because now all potential sources of poison, bleed and ignite are on an equal footing when it comes to scaling the dot rather than this fucked up system of double dipping that you guys are keeping?


I really dont understand why you guys are doing this, its pretty terrible for the game in many ways.

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ya exactly, why has this all become so convoluted and all over the place? Were removing double dipping... except were keeping double dipping, just making it a million times harder to understand but we think we might have got the damage potential to a reasonable place fingers crossed...

Well it is not double dipping anymore, because the mods don't make themself more valuable. They just work on both parts (Initial Hit and DoT) but don't influence each other. But there is a big issue with that.

Exspecially as a melee it was not too hard to get some average bleeds in that helped a bit with damage. But since your melee physical damage doesn't scale bleeds anymore it is insanely hard to scale them. Right now if you skill EVERY SINGLE Node improving Bleeding on the tree your bleed would deal less damage with the new system as it does now on a regular melee not opting to scale bleed. Simply because it is so easy to get 600+ Inc. Melee Physical Damage. Bloodlust and Melee Physical Damage alone as supports provide about 140% inc. Melee Physical Damage with about 300% Inc. Melee Physical Damage from the tree and Strength you would be at 600+ Inc. Melee Damage already and it is easy to get more.

Regardless of what the actual mechanic is it basically destroyes DoTs, except maybe Flameblast which can scale DoT and Hit with multiple mods (Totem Damage, Fire Damage, Elemental Damage and Area Damage), but it will be a lot weaker as well. But almost all other DoTs get destroyed, exspecially Melee Poison and Bleed (although Melees were never able to scale those very well anyway).

Thing is all the Double Dipping builds are still the best builds for DoTs, but most of them are terrible anyway. Overall DoTs based on Hits are just dead for the next few patches, while DoTs with a fixed value will get buffed due to the changes. Exspecially RF and to a lower degree Scorching Ray and Fire Trap will get buffs, not sure if Essence Drain and Blight will be affected, because they are neither Poison, nor Bleed or Burn but if there are more generic DoT nodes it might help them as well.

did i hear a boost for SR?

They better put order in servers. We get d/c and when we come back to game, no loot in bag and map portals are gone. For a simple map is meh... but if you open Uber or Shaper and game d/c you like this, dosen;t matter if you are double dipping or mono dipping. Is frustating.

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Rory wrote:

Reply to this forum post with any questions you have about damage over time mechanics or design, we'll be answering them in a third post in this series.

Will the change to the 'trap support' and 'remote mine support' gems (them only applying to hits) be reverted?

Are there any plans to adjust ascendancies based on poison/DoT?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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KnyazSunny wrote:

Right now we have a complicated system (e.g some modifiers double dip, others do not. Takes a bit of research to figure things out when you are new to the game).

If I understand these changes correctly, the complexity shoots up further. Now, modifiers will be even more selective, often in non-intuitive ways (e.g fire damage still double dips. But now, something like attack damage will do nothing for bleed base damage.)

I do not understand this. Things like attack damage effecting the base were never an issue. The issue is solely with double dipping modifiers. I would have thought it would be smarter to just prevent double dipping stats from applying to the dot (e.g inc physical damage, inc fire damage), while still allowing dot modifiers to apply directly to the dot (e.g increased damage over time, increased physical damage over time etc). This game is always unnecessarily complicated.

ya exactly, why has this all become so convoluted and all over the place? Were removing double dipping... except were keeping double dipping, just making it a million times harder to understand but we think we might have got the damage potential to a reasonable place fingers crossed...

...seriously?


Cant you guys just actually remove double dipping? Remove it and let only dot increases increase the dots? Wouldnt that be far more simple to balance, far more simple for players to build around, open up far more build diversity because now all potential sources of poison, bleed and ignite are on an equal footing when it comes to scaling the dot rather than this fucked up system of double dipping that you guys are keeping?


I really dont understand why you guys are doing this, its pretty terrible for the game in many ways.

I believe it's not technically double dipping, because you're dipping with a 2nd chip now.

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Unagi604 wrote:

I believe it's not technically double dipping, because you're dipping with a 2nd chip now.

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Emphasy wrote:

Well it is not double dipping anymore, because the mods don't make themself more valuable. They just work on both parts (Initial Hit and DoT) but don't influence each other. But there is a big issue with that.

its still double dipping, you take 1 damage passive and it works on the hit and on the dot. It doesnt scale the dot part twice by scaling the hit, but you are still scaling 2 things with the 1 passive. A single dip would be something that only scales the dot or the hit, not both.