Shared Mines and Sulphite Rebalance

Listening community feedback, this is why I love this game so much and all of u GGG :) !

Haha, if you people think this will change anything, good luck. It still is the same shit. Play, what basically is, standard and farm your tickets to spend time in actual league. Delve could have been this monster of an infinite dungeon letting players explore and test their builds to absolute max. So far, just farm sulphite boys so you can have a peek.

"

gathor wrote:

Haha, if you people think this will change anything, good luck. It still is the same shit. Play, what basically is, standard and farm your tickets to spend time in actual league. Delve could have been this monster of an infinite dungeon letting players explore and test their builds to absolute max. So far, just farm sulphite boys so you can have a peek.

Said this in another post already, i'd rather spend 75% in delve (season content) and 25% in maps to grind sulphite instead the other way around. I was already thinking to play standard because of this. I don't really understand the need for sulphite at all, why again do you need to grind it all. Just remove it and let players spend as much time as they want in the mine. Afterall its just another stupid grind to fuel the cart.

double post

"

demon9675 wrote:

They don't want people living in the delve, because skipping the main game also skips motivations they've carefully built in over years for spending real money.

Bullseye

"

Iznuts wrote:

"

aKaZiM wrote:

How about we get rid of character seeding so I can actually find a prime resonator .

THIS, i still havent found a single 4 socket resonator. as of right now my plan for this evening is rolling a new characters till i get my first 4 socket to drop then deleteing all my other ones so i get rid of their map seed. cause i really dont want to be stuck with 1 delve that has a shit seed for the rest of my time in the game.

some people have made plenty of chaos selling them for 40 chaos each and some people who got a shit seed wont even have them drop.

Ride the crawler again
Pierce the mine's skin
You delved more than you need
Now you're choking on the bad seed
On the bad seed
Ah, choking


chokin
chokin
on the bad seed, bad bad seed

Can we have double the amount of flares please ? its annoying to have to go to mine entrance after every delve to restock.

"

mega2k0 wrote:

"

psycatz wrote:

"

...The way we did this was was by having the amount of Sulphite increase drastically as you play higher-tier maps

Higher-tier maps doesnt NOT exist GGG if u keep them locked from dropping.... LAUL

playing 15h a day
2 char @ top ladder delve
lvls 88,94,81,93 this is my map tab btw

and don't hazard to tell me how to play this game

there's a MAP TAB now and nobody told me about it?!?!?!

"

Innomen wrote:

"

Ygidua wrote:

To me it is a mystery, why GGG is listening so much to people on reddit. Many of them are real money traders, many of them play 24/7 or with bots, they shouldn´t be the audience you care about

See below man :/ Capitalism doesn't work like that. The imperative to make the most profit is only incidentally linked to making the best product. That's the reason monopolies are a bad thing, they decouple quality from profit.

Incentive has always been incidental.

GGG's preferred customer has deep pockets, and shallow everything else. And preferably they are on a mission to diminish anything that doesn't amount to "HYPE! GGG TAKE My FIRST BORN AND PAYCHECK!!" Or free advertising.

"

Rake7 wrote:

You don´t get that they would have to rebalance the entire Delve rewards (tune down by alot!) if they remove the sulphit requirement.

Even if true, (which it isn't) it would simply be a matter of dialing back quantity.

Interesting how people don't understand that items in this game are a river and not (ironically) a mine.

It's an infinite river of lewt. It 100% does not matter what the upper drop rate is beyond access. It's exactly how like taking 10% of someone's last dollar is completely different from taking 10% from a billionaire.

The bottom is qualitatively different. There's a threshold beyond which more wealth has no practical meaning beyond what it costs others. (In this case literally nothing.)

Lewt production is a non zero sum game.

And it is production. It's not extraction. The items pop into existence BECAUSE you killed a mob. You're printing your own money with your clicks. Worrying about any sort of inflation here is accordingly insane.

By zero sum logic the very existence of high power characters would make the game unplayable economically for lower power players when the exact opposite is true. Hyper item inflation is why the whole concept of leveling uniques is even possible. Because essentially the poe universe is a post scarcity society for all practical purposes.

Being able to buy good items for 1c improves enjoyment, period. And the cheaper they are the better. The ONLY danger of hyper inflation here is to the sensation of economic hierarchy.

That's why filters are universally understood to be a good idea.

The problem with quantity has never been fictional inflation. The problem has been GGG in turn gutting everyone else's access in an effort to constrain them. Their drops were never the problem. GGG's belief that it was and their subsequent "solutions" are the problem.

The root issue, as always, is control. GGG wants all of it, and has all of it, and all we have are illusions. This place is a casino. The house always wins.

There would be literally no harm done if you could put a currency fountain in your hideout. (Or play offline, or mod, or play old versions, etc.) But see, the profits irl are the issue. The kind of people GGG want are greedy and materialistic even in non material contexts. And the real product, is the other customers. GGG is selling tools to whales to gloat for the krill.

They want the kind of people so ruled by greed they will pay what amounts to a monthly fee to keep an ever expanding bank of items so they can feel superior to all the krill that for whatever reason don't or can't do exactly as they do.

What GGG has done here is invent a pleasing river (content), and then setup shop selling jugs (stash tabs) to the people paranoid or greedy enough to feel the need to keep all the water (lewt) they touch.

Depending on where this goes, this may honestly be my last league. Which is exactly what GGG wants because I've already decided to never spend another dime, or profit them in any way as far as I can tell, so I'm exactly the kind of person they have a fiduciary duty (to tencent) to drive off.

So if you agree with anything I said, be advised, the game is unlikely to evolve in a direction you'll enjoy.

what you're saying would only make sense if ggg was behind some or all of the currency-for-cash sites (which I don't believe because ggg doesn't have the brains to do something like that). ggg doesn't care about in-game economy cause all of that shit has by definition no real life value. do "rich" people (in-game) buy more mtx? probably, but that is because they are fanboys, not because they have more (worthless) currency. even a complete noob can buy some expensive (yet utterly worthless) mtx to gloat with it.

and you should really check out entropia universe, btw. would make a whole lot more sense too if you were talking about that game

"

Rake7 wrote:

You are really living in your own dreamworld. Its just completely crazy what are you talking about in general.

To me you are like a speaking cog, crammed in with other cogs and gears and springs desperately screaming about how free you are and how much space you have.

Critical thought demands that I take criticism seriously. But you didn't offer any. Your entire comment could be rephrased: Insult, disagreement, no reasons given.

It's clear you'd rather not discuss this, which is fine, but ignoring the efforts of others to manipulate your emotions for profit only leaves you vulnerable. /shrugs

"

Fruz wrote:

Yes it is, it obviously is.
I mean, you would be mentioning any ... but of course you're not ( and you won't be, I know, it's alright ).

I honestly can't tell if you're kidding.

Is it possible for anyone to literally think progression is the only possible motivation to play a game?

Off the top of my head this ARPG can be played as a shooter, a flat RPG, a trade simulator, a room designer, a racing game, and an interactive novel.

Not to mention a sociology/psychology lab.

You must be defining progression in some catch all unusual way.

"

Fruz wrote:

Absolutely irrelevant.
Progression is not all about the storyline, at all.

My point was/is that if progression were all that mattered people wouldn't sacrifice it to start over. Nothing in the story has any economic value.

But whatever. It's clear you don't want to have a serious discussion either.

"

Fruz wrote:

There is no actual reason why delving would directly reduce stash tab buying from players.

You're unaware of all the effort to guide player psychology baked into the structure and process of leveling a character. Delve essentially/potentially replaces the entire story arc with a single long hallway. This has psychological consequences whose impact on spending I'm sure isn't fully known yet.

Do you honestly think GGG isn't comparing earnings relative to each league and each mechanical change?

"

Iznuts wrote:

Innomen didnt you say you were quitting last league? and the one before that as well? just leave already and spare us the short whiny stories of why everything should be free and require no effort to attain.

1. Yes I was, but context changed for me, irl and here. Besides, I've never hidden my addiction. My steam review of this game is negative for that reason. This place is a casino. It's purpose built to strip us of money using whatever emotional and psychological tools are available.

2. What kind of dystopian masochistic assertion are you ultimately making? Of course everything should be free and effortless if possible. If you wanna flog yourself on principal I'm sure you can find something heavy and sufficiently flexible around your house.

3. Whiny? I love how they've managed to convince you that endurance of economic and psychological exploitation makes you a manly tough manful man. X)

Better buy another supporter pack to prove it >.>

"

Hawklaser wrote:

And in regards to the just go sideways a bit if want a fresh delving experience for a character, I'd much rather have separate mines than be forced to side path for say 10-40+ nodes or so to achieve the same effect by spending more time and sulphite to get far enough away from another characters main mine area.

Going sideways enough to get a qualitatively new delve would take like 15 minutes max and thanks to the mine being shared you can start this process at any previous depth.

This compared to the two day slog of story mode every league just to start maps... Really is a trivial ask.

Further, separate mines are completely immersion breaking. Granted immersion breaking is totally ignored everywhere else in this game, but that only means I welcome any baby steps toward maintaining it.

"

RaZeR1976 wrote:

Just remove it and let players spend as much time as they want in the mine.

Like I said above man they can't risk that. If it turns out delve 24/7 translates into notably less spending and tons more fun GGG would have an existential crisis and a lose lose situation on their hands.

They have to gauge the economic impact of delve first, and fun second. That's the core problem with any profit motive.

Sulphite exists as a moderating tool, to forcibly mix delve and standard so they can compare impacts to the bottom line and other metrics which apply to said line.

Worst case, sulphite allows them to backstop losses. Judging from their design choices it seems delve is making them less money than usual.

This makes sense to me since delve is so relaxing compared to the rest of the game. Anxiety is profitable in a casino.

"

mega2k0 wrote:

Bullseye

Thanks :)

"

LMTR14 wrote:

what you're saying would only make sense if ggg was behind some or all of the currency-for-cash sites

Every action GGG takes with regard to POE and its community has one of three impacts on their income from POE. Positive, negative, and zero.

It's wildly complex but it can be empirically studied.

They have a business model, and now fiduciary duties to their parent corporation.