Shared Mines and Sulphite Rebalance

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TreeOfDead wrote:

Thanks GGG for listening community!

Well done!

and then there are this kind of zombies

p.s. if u r trolling, you got me ! i hope u are

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demon9675 wrote:

It seems to me like a lot of people are assuming there will be more sulphite grind after this patch rather than less, but it’s difficult to tell from the manifesto text. We just have to see how much they buff sulphite gain from maps vs how much the delve costs increase; right now, reacting like the map grind is increasing is just operating on pure speculation.

If they are increasing the map grind, that’s just nonsensical and the opposite of what everyone wanted.

What do you mean pure speculation? They clearly stated,you get more sulphite from high tier maps and delving will cost more sulphite now.
No matter how much these 2 increase,it's a clear nerf to low tier maps sulphite farming. "If you can't play standard effectively,you don't deserve the league" is what GGG is saying with this move.
If only t12+ would drop now....

Did you previoysly patched to lower the amount of Sulphite collected by a party ? That way people dont want play maps in party, the social part of a game is important...

Another point, everytime when a new league comes up, with new content, you do everything to make that new and enjoyable content like very rare to reach. No way playing 1000 like in standard and reach a new boss one time in three month...

Crossed only one delve boss over 250 Deths level.

YOU ARE ALWAYS DOING THE SAME MISTAKE, LIKE THE FAMOUS FARRIC TIGER ALPHA THAT YOU WILL NEVER REACH AFTER TWO MONTH OF PLAY !!

WHAT YOU COULD DO IN THE FUTURE : MORE BOSS ENCOUNTERS WITH LESS DROPRATE ! - That way we could really play and farm the new league content...

THE 0.0001% BOSS ENCOUNTER WITH 100% UNIQUE DROPRATE, PLEASE NO !

Have a good sunday folks.

Honestly... please keep the Delve mechanic. It is an extremely fun aspect to the game. It allows you to alternate play between mapping and Delving, keeping your play interesting.

I'm not speaking to the rebalancing of Sulfite because I'm sure that will be fine-tuned in the long run.

One suggestion: As a spectre build, our primary downfall in my opinion, is the dependency on others just to spawn our minions, or feeling the pain when you accidentally mess with your Spectre gem, and have to go through all the trouble of "making" new spectres is an issue. Delve can actually fix this. Allow the delve to spawn monster as high as Desecrate will allow. Then, it will encourage players to delve deeply, but the reward is the ability to quickly teleport to depth, summon your spectres, and be on your merry. So please consider this *when* you roll Delve into the core game.

Thank you.

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Fruz wrote:

There would be barely any excitement seeing anything drop because everything would be worthless as everybody would have it already. (etc)

We don't need anything like manufactured austerity to "incentivize" us to play.


You're half right for the wrong reason. Yes GGG is constrained by the profit motive, but you're too steeped in the dogma of materialism yourself if you think we as players need such things to enjoy ourselves.

We don't. Humans are instinctive creatures with a genetic imperative to among other things, hunt and gather.

This theme is ubiquitous on par with the golden ratio across all human involved contexts. There isn't a single class of thing on earth that isn't collected by someone.

From kitkat flavors to fighter jets, from stones along the road side to news papers and literal trash. Some humans get such a huge dose of this impulse they literally try to collect everything and some even die of it.

Items in this game would be no exception.

As I already explained we're already post scarcity in poe. There are very few items that are truly unavailable. Stepping back, trade pretty much functions like an NPC vendor that sells literally everything for some amount of currency and the VAST majority of it is literally dirt cheap.

If this would hurt the game somehow, it's already done.

It's entirely possible to play some weakened version of most builds even with quest rewards and shop trash. That disproves your implication that the "economy" matters in any meaningful way beyond tricking people into believing that it matters.

You're half right as I said, but you're making the incorrect assumption that people need a profit motive to have a motive. That's simply not how being a mammal works.

However, incentives are needed, and profit motive is one of them.

All you are doing is defending your emotional and cash investment, which is why my statements threaten you because they expose lewt's lack of such value.

Post purchase rationalization.

What you are actually saying is that the game cannot survive as a business model without being very precisely shady, manipulative, and broken. And you are correct.

As for control, for myself personally, since you feel the need to inspect me as an individual, what I want is power shifted to all of society, not a monopoly.

This game is entirely derivative, and yet we apply policy designed to protect originators to it. But GGG didn't originate any of this. Pick any mechanic, or art asset, I'll find it somewhere older for you. POE is a massive remix that would have happened organically like wikipedia if it had not basically been illegal or economically punished doing so.

POE is at its root simply diablo plus final fantasy's materia system and sphere grid.

Legally we have no choice but to care because if GGG fails, the assets will not be converted to open source, they will be horded and shelved.

And if that is the argument you are really making, than make it. Don't dress it up in casino lore and Malthusian economic fiction that totally doesn't apply in a setting composed entirely of numbers.

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MasterAxe wrote:

each character should have their own set of mine layouts.

But they can if you want. I don't understand the opposition to a shared mine. If you go left or right 50 units, like literally until you can't see your old delve, that is qualitatively identical to a whole new delve.

People don't understand what random and infinite ultimately mean.

Imagine it like this: Climbing a specific tree in a forest on a planet. If you'd like to climb a different tree just move left. You don't need a whole new planet to get the exact same difference of experience.

CAN WE REROLL DELVE?

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This way you would get a unique Delve experience with each character you create, and could Delve at depths appropriate for that character's power level

LOL, WHY??? Let's see, if my league-starter character found Aul or something that gives good loots but im unable to defeat the boss, then i had to skip the loot ors upgrade "the league starter char" with end-game-gear to defeat it? Glad that u still see the problem, but 1 month lated

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PsOfOs wrote:

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demon9675 wrote:

It seems to me like a lot of people are assuming there will be more sulphite grind after this patch rather than less, but it’s difficult to tell from the manifesto text. We just have to see how much they buff sulphite gain from maps vs how much the delve costs increase; right now, reacting like the map grind is increasing is just operating on pure speculation.

If they are increasing the map grind, that’s just nonsensical and the opposite of what everyone wanted.

What do you mean pure speculation? They clearly stated,you get more sulphite from high tier maps and delving will cost more sulphite now.
No matter how much these 2 increase,it's a clear nerf to low tier maps sulphite farming. "If you can't play standard effectively,you don't deserve the league" is what GGG is saying with this move.
If only t12+ would drop now....

We have absolutely no clue what the impact will be until we play with the changed numbers. We don't know how much sulphite gains will increase, what they mean by "high tier maps," what level of delving will start to cost more, how much more it will really cost, how the ratio of mapping to delving will be altered, etc. The changes might only be a "nerf" to low level maps if you're already past delve 500 - we have no idea. Everyone's rushing to a conclusion here with the tiniest hint of information.

You could be right, so I'm not really arguing with you bc I have no idea, but given that 1. GGG is claiming to be making changes based on what the community wants and 2. GGG is saying they're making some vague change to the sulphite system without providing much information, it's not at all implausible that those changes are at least intended to follow what the community was asking for - which is less sulphite grind overall.

The changes may indeed prove to be insufficient or wrongheaded - I'm not defending GGG's past competence in these matters - but I'm a little shocked by how many players are making big assumptions about the ultimate impact before having any idea what the numbers actually are. There aren't even official patch notes yet. These manifesto statements are intentionally cloudy because GGG hasn't actually decided the details yet and are just giving us a heads-up about the direction they're going while maintaining the freedom to do who-knows-what when the patch comes out.

Let's wait and see what they actually DO before freaking out. I know a lot of people, including myself, were upset at the state in which Delve was initially released, but it's not wise to become outraged before we have anything specific to be outraged about.

P.S. The backlash against the shared mine makes zero sense to me. It'll make all of our lives easier, especially when the mechanic goes core.

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Innomen wrote:

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You are missing the whole point of arpgs.

It's all about progression.
If you can get everything easily in a couple of days, then there is no more progression, and pretty much no point to play this game as the exploration is reaaally not where it shines ( altho Delve does help a bit with that, but if you've seen all biomes/encounters and don't need any items, I'm pretty positive it's going to get boring real quick. ).

You are really missing the big picture and the whole "point" of this game and what makes it a good one (relative notion, I know) and keep resorting to using condescending nonsense by calling people that don't think like you "emotional" or "materialist".

There's already a reason to go to high tier maps. Farming Act 9/10 for sulphite provided an alternative to mapping and allowed progression.

Removing this aspect and requiring players to map to progress in Delve doesn't make much sense to me. If the purpose of this patch is to encourage players to map then simply increase the drop of high tier maps.. no other changes need to be made.

Players like the new mechanic so much they are willing to grind out Quarry to experience it. Now you are punishing them to force them to play a certain way.. why?

There's a million ways to build your character and a million ways to equip them. Why limit them to one means of progression?

Forcing players to map to progress in Delve will not increase the number of players mapping. It will reduce the number of players in Delve - myself included. Please reconsider.