[Outdated] Ultimate EDTrickster [2M dps - UNKILLABLE]
" Gotcha. When I read 240% move speed, I interpreted it as +240%, not just the base +140% that every build has by default with boots/quicksilver/onslaught. Anyways, out of sheer curiosity, I tried to see what would happen if I added back all the noob trap items you trashed and moved the tree around. Changes made: - wear Perfect Form, Devouring Diadem, Atziri's Step - new passive tree (level 97) - swap out chill flask for jade flask of reflexes - add Flesh and Stone to the build. With enlighten 4, malevolence, discipline, and Flesh and Stone in DD, we still have enough mana to keep Aspect of the Spider - added recovery from DD's Feast of Flesh - swap out Soul Strike for a utility quiver (life, move speed, resists, ES/evasion craft). DD will start your ES recharge for you, so no need for this As a result, I get: - 10% more damage, mostly coming from damage nodes on the tree - 6% additional spell block (from +atziri -hyrri) - 87% all in chance to not get hit vs. 89% in yours (higher evasion and flesh and stone blind basically offset your dodge) - 9k eHP (6k life, 3k ES). Since we don't spec Acro, we don't suffer ES penalty. We also pick up some more life nodes with the saved passive points, giving us more life and more ES despite the chest and helmet having less synergy with Escape Artist - Additional damage reduction from Arctic Armor - Additional damage reduction from far enemies through Flesh and Stone So more damage, more spell dodge, equal attack avoidance, more HP, and more damage reduction. Also, unrelated, but choosing a Karui jewel over a Maraketh seems wild. Maraketh can give straight additive bonuses to your notables including move speed, frenzy charge on kill, onslaught on kill, evasion, etc. You can drop the Green Nightmare too if you get frenzy charge generation here. That seems like an enormous sacrifice just to be able to run Increased Duration Support on your Wither totems. You're an ED build, you've got time to cast them again. Last edited by rlauren2 on Jul 10, 2019, 10:08:56 AM
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acro is the real noob trap here, not perfect form
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deleted, I was looking at the wrong Maraketh jewel. My bad.
Last edited by IchiMorghulis on Jul 10, 2019, 6:52:40 PM
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" With MoM, it is completely useless to get more than half of your life worth of ES. So if you have 5k health, no need to get much more than 2.6-2.7k es, just to feel safe. If you can hit that with accro, that's straight up better. I looked at your profile. You would get absolutely thrashed by the hard auls I've done. The hardest I've done had frenzies, fire extra, and pen.First try. You have really good gear and your damage must be really nice, but it's not what I'm trying to achieve here. Imo, ED has enough damage with ~1.2M dps to clear anything, then it's a matter of building tanky. You can't do conflicts, but no ED build can do conflicts well enough, that's out of the question. With 1.2Mil you're clearing all content dps wise, the hard bosses are just about building really defensive. Your version clears strictly less content than this build, so It is not what I'm looking for. Sorry. (also, PoE.ninja shows my damage higher than yours, but I think it's just the calculations being shitty as always.) " Devouring diadem Ok. You're running a blind aura with devouring diadem, why not. That's at least a use of the item. Feast of flesh, really? It triggers every 5 seconds and consumes corpses to give you es. Appart from the fact that 5s is a long time, it consumes corpses. If there is corpses, you killed the mobs. That means you beneficed from 2% ES gained per kil less than a second ago (because we're moving, so the corpses we walk over are these we just killed. We are already full es at that point: Feast of flesh is pointless. Also by not pathing to the AOE cluster near EB, you're missing 30% increased AOE. It's easy to pump up numbers in pob but these are worth it for 4 points, take them. Then EB is a 1 point grab. So that leaves us with diadem giving us blind aura because of the -20% mana reservation (which, since we are socket starved if we use a 2nd 6l, is a 30% LESS damage multiplier) and gives use recharge when using a skill. That recharge is really really nice, not gonna lie! But with soul strike, you get recharge all the time, as long as you're not ignited. Very similar. Also, there's nothing cool on a quiver. onslaught on kill (which we already have), and 99 life (that's actually really neat). On the other hand, vertex (or a rare helm with -9% chaos!) gives use twice as much ES. And that bonus 130es means 780 flat evasion from our ascendancy. Plus the 800eva vertex gives, that's a total of 1500 flat eva from a better helm choice. And it's much much cheaper because of the enlighten cost. There's just no match. Perfect form You're giving in 300 flat ES from ascendancy, and 10% each dodge to pick up arctic armour. We already have phase accro, read above (and later I'll explain why you want accro on the tree as well). For that, you're gaining some life, and arctic armour. Arctic armour is just gem clutter imo. It's really nice, but does NOT work when you move. We play ed. Do I have to explain why this is a bad choice? Perfect form is giving you some life and phase accro. evasion roll is trash on it, don't tell me about the global increase, it doesn't even come close to an actual evasion chest. Sorry, it's just really bad. Atziri's step I don't even know what to say on that one. Just compare them with my boots. There's absolutely no match. Also, why the actual F are you valuing spell dodge now? 99% of legion monsters only use attacks (I can't actually recall a single deadly spell). Attack dodge >>>>> Spell dodge. That's just how it works. And that's why spell dodge is easier to come by overall, it's game balance I guess. Just get regular dodge. Avoidance You claim 89% chance to avoid incoming attacks when you're removing 75% dodge from the build? Well then, I have 97% if you have that much. -Jade flask: don't be a PoB warrior dude. Jade flask is a 30/60 uses flask. we can use that 3 times max, and it takes 50% more charges to recharge than an aquamarine. Aquamarine, on the other hand, has the benefit of actually being up. Yeah, jade will be up while mapping, but we're not building tanky to farm t2 glaciers are we? - No dodge. It's easy to remove 10 points on the tree to remove accro and take out dodge stuff, just to say you have a bit more life/damage. The reality is, even when flasks are down I dodge almost everything. Uber elder misses his spears all the time, and aul doen't do much, even when I mess up. One last thing. Stop being a PoB warrior and put an actually tengible accuracy number in PoB. Put the ennemy at level 100 and give him full map mods. That's still far from a stacked legion pack with the auras they have. Then you'll see that 23K evasion actually doesn't give you 89% avoidance. Timeless jewel Maraketh jewels are much harder to come by. Because you'll also want the maraketh evasion keystone (because why not, since we're at it), getting life or MS (the only good stats) is much harder, trippling the cost. since the spot also won't be as great, eeeeeeh, you're looking at 10 times the price of a 3 mod karui one, which will give you more life anyways and fix your attributes. Also, frenzy on kill/endurance on maraketh jewel, why not, but on top of life rolls, it's delusional to think you'll own one of these. Just get a lethal pride. We already have frenzies and onslaught anyways. Just in case: green nightmare also gives us 3% dodge. It's the exact 3% we need to cap ourselves. TL:DR There's a reason I say these noob traps are noob traps. Think what you want and pob how much you want, I have already pob'd these too and have 250h+ played in legion just as ED trickster. While this is just my opinion and anyone's free to build however they want, these are not just quick shower thoughts. |
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" So it's 5 points to grab EB and the AoE cluster. From my tree you can take the Amplify node and 3x 12% damage nodes for 6 points. So Devouring Diadem, Flesh and Stone, and a full utility quiver (which can roll useful things like move speed or AoE) vs. Vertex's ES/evasion and 1 skill point. To call that "no match" in your favor is pretty aggressive. It's certainly cheaper, no argument there. Your build has 7 multimod gear pieces, level 4 empower, a 10ex watcher's eye, and more though already, so drawing the line at my inclusion of a level 4 enlighten seems a bit odd. " You're not giving up 300 flat ES. You're gaining ES because you don't spec Acro. You're giving up 50% dodge/10% spell dodge to gain ES, Arctic Armor, some life, and 8 skill points. And given the choice between having damage reduction when stationary vs. when moving, of course you'd want it when stationary. You never get hit when moving. The only time you ever get hit is when you pause during cast animations. You should be trying to minimize the time you stop to cast and picking those times appropriately, but that's still when you're most likely to be hit. " Then why do you spec Phase Acro? I actually agree Atziri's Step aren't the best choice. You were just being incredibly arrogant and condescending towards all the other guides/players and I wanted to see how many of the items you hated that I could keep while maintaining superior stats. " So I'm a PoB warrior for counting a Jade Flask as up, but you count all flasks up on bosses, leaving them blinded, chilled, with Arcane Surge enabled in your PoB? Pick a lane, man. I used your PoB as a starting point and only did the things you did. All the inputs you used with your build/map mods/etc. gave you 89% avoidance with blind unchecked. I swapped in DD/PF/AS and switched the chill flask to a jade flask, checked blind (since I have Flesh and Stone), used some of the saved skill points to get more evasion from the tree, and got to 87%. You don't get to call all of those changes dumb, not make them, then use my 87% avoidance as the base to just add back in your 75% dodge. " Again, "fix your attributes" for what? Increased Duration Support on Wither totems? You don't even have to put in a Maraketh jewel then, just toss in a standard 3-prop jewel and it's an improvement. " If you want to say your build is designed to take on ultra-mod deep delve bosses and you've specifically geared it for only that purpose, fine. But you don't just get that for free. PoE is about tradeoffs, and you make a lot of them with your build. To declare the armor that's worn by 40% of the ED Tricksters on poe.ninja over level 95 a "noob trap" that belongs in the dumpster because you feel your build performs better in a very niche content that basically 0.01% of the player base plays is so ridiculous. And then to go further and trash all other content creators for suggesting such items is just rude. Even if you were right (which you're not), there's no need to call everyone who disagrees with you an idiot. Last edited by rlauren2 on Jul 11, 2019, 1:04:36 AM
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" are you at 800k with wither? because im at 600k without wither lol also i never understood why people go MoM EB with ED with soulrend i can understand (high mana cost) with ED, i can clear entire packs with one cont-Ed Cast with 155 unreserved mana and recover everything wtih ascendancy you lose 70% of your ES pool as mana, what do you get in return? 1 extra aura? i dont know just doesnt make sense to go MoM EB for ED Last edited by primordialiege on Jul 11, 2019, 4:42:23 AM
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@rlauren2
I don't really know what to answer to you. I dislike your choices and as you've said yourself, you just wanted to try to go against me by fitting all the items I said were trash in the build to prove me wrong. Then you claim achieving higher stats with the items I claim to be bad. But you're totally ignoring the fact that you removed the main defensive setup in the build. Imagine taking a full block gladiator build and removing the block, to grab around ~10% more ehp and damage. There's just no point, please stop doing that. I will answer you one last time however: " You are absolutely right for the enlighten. It is not really a cost anymore at that point, and flesh and stone for blind aura is a good option. As I've said, I just think the ES/eva from vertex is just too good. Vertex gives 1300 flat evasion more than diadem. That scales the ghost shroud regen, where blind doesn't. Blind is still overall superior tho, you're right. But for the passive tree, you've said yourself you could take amplify. Then the templar aoe cluster is worth taking too, since it's the same aoe for 2 points as well. But guess what? You now have 20% aoe for 4 points. It is strictly worse than the aoe cluster near EB that also gives spell damage for the same 4 points. " From my mere 250 hours of actually playing the build, the only time I die is on very hard bosses, or when I completely ignore the pack of 5 eternal dudes slamming aoes at me in multi damage maps while I'm looting stuff in front of them. Anyways. So you're giving up all the dodge chance of the build (75% mitigation) to get 8 skill points and around 10% more ehp. If you think that's a good tradeoff, fine. You're right when you say poe is about tradeoffs, so take the one you like. I'm however pretty sure there's an obvious choice here. " Alright, let me get this straight. You're the one comming in a thread I spent ~15hours making, on a build I played 250hours. I have justification for all the choices and tradeoffs made. Here, I'm picking phase accro because it makes spell dodge jump from 35% to 65%, for one single passive point. If you have a good justification to not take ~50 less spell avoidance, sure. Other builds are either made by people who don't have enough experience and make poor choices, or are actually good ones but starting to be old and not updated so well (I'm thinking of Ghazzy's huge thread here). I wrote this because I could not find an actuall good thread considering many options and picking the best overall, despite 20% of legion playing some variant of ED trickster. " Right. My point is, all ED tricksters have arcane surge/onslaught the same way, and most builds check it, so do I for comapison. It doesn't matter, you have it as any other build. I also whecked blind and chill because it does not improve EHP or damage while being situationnal, so whatever. Imo the only questionnable choice is frenzies, but most other builds also have them, so idk. What bothers me about the jade flask is that you're claiming your whole changes as straight up better even for evasion while loosing about 3000 flat from gear and ascendancy. While it is true that a jade flask gives more than vertex+hyrri's, you may change this thread's aquamaring for a jade as a 1:1 change, and you'll get 30k+ evasion. But I'm not making that choice, because a 4uses 7seconds (total 30secs!) flask that gives curse immunity is actually a much better allrounder. The truth is, this build has more avoidance than yours, by far. We have 3000 additionnal flat evasion, and 75% dodge. " Brutal restraint gives me 35 flat life and 4% increased from a random one I took. I'm not saying your choice of a maraketh is bad, it's really cool as well! But the benefits of a maraketh one are gained elsewhere in this setup, so you can have more life. Also, steelskin if you want. I prefer Lethal pride. The choice is debatable on this one, you're right. (btw I'd rather get lethal pride than 3 pro rare) " I'm not calling anyone an idiot, come on. I wouldn't be discussing with you if I didn't value your opinions. That said, considering depth 350 delves a "niche" content is a bit of an overstatement. We're not making a guide for t2 glaciers there, otherwise we wouldn't even be using a bow (zeel's amplifier). It's just a good way to know if the build performs well imo. A "good" build guide should propose a build that's able to do most content in the game. And the truth is, the guides I've seen are suboptimal in that I can clear a bigger portion of the game with this setup (all there's left is emblems and HoGM). That's just my opinion on what a "good" build guide should in essence be, but there's more to it and everyone will have a different idea of it. Anyways. I hope that answers your post and you understand better the choices I made. Have fun. |
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" This setup is at 1.2M shaper DPS. I just looked at poe.ninja for numbers, as I've already state they're probbaly wrong. I don't understand what you mean by "you lose 70% of your ES pool as mana". MoM EB allows you to take damage on both life and ES at the same time, allowing you to also recover both at the same time. Without it, the insane life recovery ED gives you is wasted by your ES slowly recharging. I also checked your profile and you don't spec in dodge almost at all. That means you will get often hit, and your ES will be often down on deeper bossfights/shitty modded t16 legions. I'm sure your setup is perfectly fine to map with, and uber elder is not too hard at all. That comes from the strength of trickster and ED overall, it doesn't mean there isn't a better setup. And by better, I'm talking about the amount of content you can clear, not the size of your Edmg meter ^^' Edit: typos Last edited by Darkxellmc on Jul 11, 2019, 5:46:50 AM
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" But with MoM EB, your Ghost Dance recovery is sorta wasted I dont need dodge, I have vaal grace and it lasts longer than t16 legion encounters lol if i wanted to pad my edmg i would have went multimodded bow like the rest of the sheeple :) If you wanna make use of ED HP regen, wouldn't it better to use a Doryani Glorious Vanity? All Ele and Phys damage, 50% bypasses ES, gain 20% of max life as max ES. Brought my ES up from 2.7k to 4.3k Last edited by primordialiege on Jul 11, 2019, 9:21:44 AM
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" Depends how you see ghost dance as "wasted" I guess ^^. Honnestly, I don't see how I'm wasting it, since the procs are only about 1.5k es gain each time you get hit. If I get hit for 5000+ damage, I'mp not wasting anything. If I get hit for less than 5000k, the damage is negligible anyways with max dodge and the recovery speed. About glorious vanity, that's a very good point! I don't like it very much because EB solves our mana issues, allowing use to use aspect of the spider. It also prevents us from using an other timeless jewel. Spider isn't amazing tho since we already have ennemies 80% dmg taken from wither (if you use wither totems that is, self cast wither doesn't reach 15 stacks), so I see the point in using glorious vanity instead of MoM EB. It also gives 1-1.1K max ES, it's nice. Honnestly both options are working, I just prefer MoM overall for the quality of life, vanity is nice for a small ehp boost. And if you don't want dodge because you have vaal grace (that gives you 34% dodge, so you have 56% in total with flasks and boots), well imagine I have vaal grace up constantly. Maybe you don't need dodge for the content you're doing, Idk. But it's a good stat. Last edited by Darkxellmc on Jul 11, 2019, 10:11:14 AM
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