China's Gaming Curfew - Tencent main enforcement

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Can you be addicted to food? Your phone? Sex? Exercise? Gambling? Games? That is the question.

of course you can be
a real addiction has nothing to do with something that is addictive, like some drugs, sugar, gambling or whatever. those are addictive on their own. a way more common addiction is what people use to circumvent dealing with their problems. it isn't a brain disorder, it isn't a mental disorder, its an emotional problem.
even addictive substances are addictions in this way. majority of people that suffer from substance abuse "addictions" are not addicted to the actual alcohol or drugs, they're addicted to what they do for them in their life.

if you're addicted to alcohol, it isn't the alcohol thats your problem. its how you deal with your problems that is your problem. it stems farther than just chemicals in your brain etc, this is why its so misunderstood and why addiction is so mistreated in the world today. nobody is actually getting helped, and addictions are on the rise because we're not taught these things throughout our life anymore.

i've witnessed people addicted to video games, addicted to cooking, addicted to shopping, addicted to cleaning, even addicted to medication.
and i'd say about 99.8% of all people i've dealt with and witnessed that suffered from substance abuse, the substance wasn't their problem. you can take the substance away and it doesn't change anything.

theres an emotional attachment to why people think they need the bottle, or whatever else is in question. this is why the 12 step AA program is so successful because it teaches you how to deal with your life so that you don't need to "medicate".

saying addiction is a disease is a cop out. its a way to excuse your behaviour under the guise that it isn't your fault or responsibility. you can't control your decisions because you have a disease. you're a special person with special needs. wrong.

you know what i see the most prevalent addiction to be today? depression. yes, people are addicted to being depressed.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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kolyaboo wrote:

I don't believe in video game addiction either

I mean this does get tricky in the science area, as it was touched on briefly.

Obviously you can have a chemical addiction. This is proven factual and not debatable.

Now when the body releases it's own chemicals, is that that the same standard? Like Dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine?
If so then activities that are triggers could technically fall inder this category? No?

This is totally separate form OCD or directly related mental health issues. I dont think that is what we are talking about.

Can you be addicted to food? Your phone? Sex? Exercise? Gambling? Games? That is the question.

Me personally I've never been addicted to anything, chemical or not. But can I say its impossible for others?

The research on this is actually under pressure.

We know biologically that certain receptors can grow when you take chemicals.

However, the requirement for the substances is not obvious at that point.(the urge)

For example a study was done with rats if im not mistaken and heroine, when the rats where exposed to the heroine in a normal box they would essentially flood their system with the stuff untill they died.

Then another experiment was done with rats and heroine where the rats where put inside a box with toys and leisure activity's(threadmills and other stuff) in this experiment the rats used the heroine once and then stopped.

So an argument can be made that addictive behavior gets worse when certain environmental conditions are met.
And that in the absence of those conditions the addictive triggers also become less powerfull.

They did the same experiment with LSD and rats tried it once and never touched the stuff again, regardless of box :p

Now these are experiments on rats, so obviously they dont translate 1on1 to humans, but they do shed light on the mechanics behind addictive behavior.
I don't think its far fetched that certain genes can switch active under stress conditions that exuberate the problem when a treshhold is reached.

To make another argument on the notion of addiction, i have a hard time not putting certain people i know in the addiction category when it comes to work for example.(arguably a "good" addiction, since society appreciates it)

Peace,

-Boem-

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xMustard wrote:

if you're addicted to alcohol, it isn't the alcohol thats your problem

That's just patently false.

Opiates and Barbiturates(among others) are powerful chemicals that change body chemistry and receptors.

You can literally die from physical manifestations related to chemical withdrawal as your body get addicted.

Hell I get a caffeine headache if I don't get my coffee in the morning. Its pretty fucked up actually when I think about it.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

if you're addicted to alcohol, it isn't the alcohol thats your problem

That's just patently false.

no, it isn't. but yeah most people don't understand addiction. it isn't anything new.
you're thinking about it too one dimensionally. its more complicated.

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xMustard wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

if you're addicted to alcohol, it isn't the alcohol thats your problem

That's just patently false.

no, it isn't. but yeah most people don't understand addiction. it isn't anything new.
you're thinking about it too one dimensionally. its more complicated.

Welp live in that world I suppose. Do "most people" include doctors and scientists, because chemical addiction, body chemistry, and brain change all happen. Its documented. You will experience withdrawal, and physical symptoms.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That's just patently false.

no, it isn't. but yeah most people don't understand addiction. it isn't anything new.
you're thinking about it too one dimensionally. its more complicated.

Welp live in that world I suppose. Do "most people" include doctors and scientists, because chemical addiction, body chemistry, and brain change all happen. Its documented. You will experience withdrawal, and physical symptoms.

Your both correct, but you have to break it up or your going to talk cross one another.

Darth is entirely correct that there is a biological habituation pattern to which the body grows accustomed and has severe impacts when this stops forcefully.(withdrawal symptoms)

xMustard is talking about the sequence of events that happen before the substance abuse becomes habitual.

Thats sort of what i was pointing at with the rat experiment aswell.

For example, somebody can be in a car accident and have physical trauma which requires pain medication, rightfully so.
In that period the body can become habituated to the effects of the pain medication and require an ever increasing dose with withdrawel symptoms if they are forcefully removed.

Now an argument could be made that physical trauma is the original cause of the addiction.

Similarly, emotional trauma can be the catalyst for such a string of events.

In that sence, dealing with your emotional trauma can be the cure to adiction, not withstanding the body would still have to go true a period of de-habituation.

Hope that blends what you were both getting at.

Peace,

-Boem-

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

no, it isn't. but yeah most people don't understand addiction. it isn't anything new.
you're thinking about it too one dimensionally. its more complicated.

Welp live in that world I suppose. Do "most people" include doctors and scientists, because chemical addiction, body chemistry, and brain change all happen. Its documented. You will experience withdrawal, and physical symptoms.

That's not an addiction, it's a physical dependency. An addiction is just wanting to do things really badly consistently. It's why you can be addicted to things like video games or gambling.

There's nothing abnormal happening in your body when that happens, the person just enjoys the dopamine and has no self control. If anybody experiences physical symptoms from an addiction unrelated to a substance it is 100% placebo.

I'm not going to debate science and facts. It's absurd.

The sequence of events leading up to habitual abuse has nothing to do with actual addiction.

Babies can be born addicted to narcotics. You can inject morphine into an 6 year old and addict them. They wont even know why or what is happening. Again this is not debatable science. Environmental or psychological triggers are secondary causation and may or may not be related at all. Being depressed so you abuse a drug, has nothing to do with what the drug does at all.

The notion that addiction is "just really wanting to do something", is a ridiculous minimization of what happens to the body as a result of chemical change. (Whether its external or internal)

Anyways it's just not an intelligent discussion, and this will go nowhere. We might as well debate whether the earth is flat.

I just thought the article was interesting, I had no intention of going down some fantasy rabbit hole that defies logical reasoning.

A physical dependency isn't debatable, which is what a baby would get if you injected them with morphine. There's no abnormal chemical changes during an addiction though, just stronger normal ones.

You're the one denying logical reason. People doing something habitually can't make the brain create a new chemical. And can never cause physical symptoms. It's all in the persons head.

People generalize the term addiction to mean a lot more than it does, so you're confusing it with other things.